But they charge money for the information. 2+2 is 100% free. My point was that certain info should not be given away for free when people like myself pays for it. Sure, I could just turn a blind eye and pretend that it didn't happen. But as a regular contributor to this particular forum, I should think that I have a little bit of say or that my opinion should mean something.

lol nits its my info to give and i can do with it whatever i want. I have never held back in posts if ppl think something about me i dont mind lvling with ppl its fine. You guys need to stop being nits honestly.

it flies by most ppls heads anyway.

i feel like saying oh 3 bet the btn cause ppl open c/o too much is just too little.

This post makes me angry.

1. Its your fault if you're paying for information that can be worked out on your own for free.

2. It will go over most people's heads anyway.

3. Withholding information from public posts (a) shows a basic misunderstanding of the poker environment and (b) actually does harm.

Look, its a maturing game. There are very few fish anymore and they're only in the micros. Most of the people on the tables, even in the micros, are regs. You need to learn how to beat regs. Its no longer 2006 and you can't setmine your way to profitability. If bad reg x has a huge leak with 3betting, he's going to get sick of losing and take his roll and buy an xbox and go on with his life and not think about poker again. Or you can teach him how to 3bet well, keep him in the game, and continue to adapt yourself.

Are posts such as the CoWs turning the games into a shark tank? Yes, but its been like that for a while. Anyone who doesn't know what they are doing is going to get cut up real fast, fact. Its been like that for a while and we aren't going back to the "good ol' days".

The real smart players have already started moving their income streams away from the tables; they are becoming coaches. There will always be true big dogs like Durrrr and kelistan who are going to kill the games. The medium sized dogs are smart to make money outside the games if possible. And the little dogs will be fed to the big dogs, as always.

So quit whinging about preserving the fish pool and learn to be a better poker player. I suggest talking with other people with similar interests as a great way to do that. Or go ahead and take your ball and go home.

I have no problem with people making money off their ideas.
So long as people - have either sought permission from the author of the idea or material - or can claim that the idea cannot be copyrighted or the manner in which the idea is explained is distinctly different - no seller of a poker product should have any qualms with the information being shared.

Information should be free.
But people's hardwork should be adequately compensated.
So just dont steal or plagiarise. And where possible or appropriate correctly attribute or acknowledge where the idea comes from. If any of that contravenes 2+2 own policies let the moderators sort it out.

Anyone not wanting to share their knowledge to a large extent - should really not be a part of an open forum such as 2+2. Their are plenty of places to socialise in the world - and even forums specifically designed for just that on 2+2.

If Greg believes he can add to CotW discussion on 3-betting and he puts effort into it - I think we should actively encourage him.

Greg, sorry, buddy, I completely forgot that you had posted here about doing a CotW. I was thinking about it, because knn05 already did the subject, and then it slipped my mind to respond.

My question to you is what exactly are you proposing that is different from knn05's CotW? Are you planning to focus in on a specific aspect of 3 betting? I'd like to see you do a CotW, I'm just not sure what you are proposing.

My thoughts on the recent discussion:

1. Digger, as usual, is 100% correct. The CotW threads are the sort of thing the 2+2 forums exist to facilitate. This is a strategy forum. The idea that we should not post strategy is completely contrary to 2+2's mission. If you disagree with posting strategy, then you should either convince the site owners it is bad (lol, good luck) or you should not be a member of the community.

2. This whole notion that posting strat makes the games tougher is silly as applied to the micros and probably to small stakes as well. The games are getting tougher independently of 2+2; DC, Stox, and the general legislative environment in the U.S., Germany and Italy have all had an effect on the games' difficulty. I don't really look at strat on 2+2 as the problem; I look at strat on 2+2 as our collective efforts to keep up with the folks who are paying big bucks to sit at the feet of Baluga Whale and other expert player/coaches.

3. I spent a few years as a college professor. Everybody in all of my classes had access to the same knowledge; not everybody got the highest grades. This is why I don't worry about strat being widely available.

4. Look at the high stakes forums. They are full of strat discussions. Sure, you can see people playing it close to the vest at times in those discussions, but the high stakes players are all smart enough to realize that even if they are expert, they can still learn from situations that come up in their game. When you say that you are against posting strat, imo, you are basically saying, "I have learned all there is to know, and now I want to keep it from other people." This makes me lol on several levels.

5. IMO as a moderator, posting in a strat thread that people should not post strat constitutes trolling and warrants infraction points and a ban for repeat offenses. As long as the (futile) discussion is kept to threads like this one, the reg threads and the chat threads, I have no problem with it. But I will take action against it if it shows up in strat threads.

6. The real problem with the games is not that strat is widely available. It is the barriers to entry that limit the number of the new fish, and create an environment in which everybody in the U.S., and a few other countries who deposits is, on average, more highly motivated than in 2005/6. If you are in the U.S.complaining about strat being posted but are not politically active trying to get the law changed, then your thinking on the subject is pretty poor, imo.

you've got it.

I mean im going to go into depth what kinda hands to 3 bet why u 3 bet them. I'm mostly going to focus on how to queeze out the most ev out of every hand and some misconceptions about 3 betting and what it actually accomplishes. Im going to focus on player types. You cant just 3 bet the same range vs all players, 3 betting is based on game flow and how the opponent see's you what kind of opponent it is.

How to adjust to several different opponents, ill give a fast example lets say u have been 3 betting the same opponent over and over and over again with trashy hands like K7ss, Q2ss,T5ss, ect...(I will discuss why 3 betting these hands vs ppl who fold alot is good vs 3 betting 67ss,78ss,JTss) and he is starting to adjust By calling QJ,KQ,TT,88,77. So now you have to change your range he isnt playing like a tag anymore he is now playing like a fish so you need to take out all the dominated hands like K7ss,Q2ss and put in a value range like AJ,AQ,KQ,JJ,. You would never 3 bet TT vs him before cause there is no point he doesnt call worse, but you might 3 bet it vs a fish.

Umm I will talk about other stuff 3 betting vs ep, creating image, How to better play in 3 bet pots. I mean there is soooooo much that knn skipped.

Ill talk about how you can 3 bet/fold AQ in some spot and where u have to call it. Ill talk about 3 betting KK vs calling against nits. I mean there is so much that isnt covered that I can cover. There seems to be alot of gap in logic about 3 bet pots like they just dont think what thier opponents think. People simply auto pilot 3 bet sc's and in most cases thats just ****ing atrocious.

I also wanna give a little tease on bluff raising on the flop and how its similar to 3 betting pre flop and how it all relates to maximizing the most ev out of every single spot

Anyway Im going to France in like 3 hours, I'll be back sept. 3rd or there about pm me if u have anymore questions mepthy

Way tO TRUMP ME WITH UR I WAS A COLLEGE PROFESSOR IM SO COOL BLAH BLAH BLAH, I SWEAR IF I WAS UR STUDENT I WOULD THROW PAPERS AT U!!!!!!!11111

rofl, I u. You would have been one among many, fwiw.

OK, the next open slot for a cotw is Nov. 2. That work for you?

have a great time in France!!!

yeh its fine, but i lied more like i would sleep at the back of the class then cram for ur final.

It's prob an insolent question, but why didn't greg put all this stuff in the original CotW thread on 3betting? I mean, this:

is totally opposite of what the CotW threads' stated purpose is. It was never knn's job to write the book on 3betting. It was knn's job to start the thread. Then it was up to the rest of us to discuss it, add what we thought was lacking, and flesh it out. You didn't do that, but now--and say what you want but this is basically what it boils down to--you call the thread starter's work inadequate and want to 'improve upon it' (read: hijack it) because you think you can do better

Smacks of ego to me. Sorry. The 3betting CotW thread is still out there, it was never locked to my knowledge, and anyone is still free to add to it. Why we need another thread on the same topic because greg asserts he's better at it than knn, someone will have to explain to me

Part of the reason I delayed in getting back to him on this was because the thread is still open, and he could post in it, like you say.

But I don't think he is saying he is better at it than she is. He just said there was a lot of stuff she left out. and that is 100% true; I haven't looked at the thread in a couple of months, but my memory of the op is that knn05 said something like people create too much preflop drama, and she talked a lot about folding to 3 bets.

I'm not knocking her or her post; I think knn05 would be the first to say that she did not comprehensively cover the subject. You are right; she was charged with starting the discussion, not covering everything, and she did an excellent job of that.

So, yeah, while he could post in that thread, I don't think there is a major problem doing a redux on her subject or any other subject, for that matter. If he is planning a major post, as it sounds like, people are more likely to see it if it is an OP than if it is post 123 or whatever in the other thread.

That's fair enough, I suppose. I guess maybe other people have more of a life than I do and don't read long posts unless they're OPs :P

I want you to know I took your post seriously because:

a. all your posts are worth taking seriously, and

b. I shared some of your concerns and had put a couple of days' thought into the same issues you raised.

re: games getting tougher, people getting better

Peter principle.