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| Micro Stakes Full Ring Discussion of up to .25/.50 online no-limit pot-limit Texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies |
03-18-2009, 05:12 PM
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#46
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Original Bacon MVP
Posts: 12,523
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Re: Concept of the Week #7: 3betting
Quote:
Originally Posted by threads13
I believe the more frequently you put yourself in a marginal spot, and learn from it, the more quickly you will grow as a player. )
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I guess I should be expecting a growth spurt here soon....................still waiting
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03-18-2009, 05:16 PM
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#47
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: FU and your OP
Posts: 3,654
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Re: Concept of the Week #7: 3betting
^^LOL! Though, I do agree with threads on the point you highlighted. I just generally find that most micro'er's time would be best spent plugging basic leaks first. The marginal spots should be worked on later down the road once the big leaks are plugged.
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03-18-2009, 05:34 PM
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#48
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,222
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Re: Concept of the Week #7: 3betting
Quote:
Originally Posted by knn05
^^LOL! Though, I do agree with threads on the point you highlighted. I just generally find that most micro'er's time would be best spent plugging basic leaks first. The marginal spots should be worked on later down the road once the big leaks are plugged.
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Which came first... the chicken... or the egg?
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03-18-2009, 05:42 PM
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#49
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Notorious
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 20,251
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Re: Concept of the Week #7: 3betting
Quote:
Originally Posted by threads13
Which came first... the chicken... or the egg? 
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You should have watched the pilot for Kings the other day.
Then you would know.
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03-18-2009, 05:54 PM
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#50
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,222
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Re: Concept of the Week #7: 3betting
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cry Me A River
You should have watched the pilot for Kings the other day.
Then you would know.
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All that and you aren't going to answer the age old question!? Does this Kings have you the payroll for advertising?
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03-18-2009, 06:00 PM
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#51
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Notorious
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 20,251
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Re: Concept of the Week #7: 3betting
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03-18-2009, 06:30 PM
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#52
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grinder
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Idiot from Western Europe
Posts: 500
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Re: Concept of the Week #7: 3betting
When I read "protect your BTN", I understand: "Someone intentionally wants to make you not play your best position around the table this round".
At the micros, I would doubt that more than 0.5% of players attack my BTN.
Isn't this BTN defense concept more for higher stakes then?
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03-18-2009, 06:32 PM
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#53
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: FU and your OP
Posts: 3,654
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Re: Concept of the Week #7: 3betting
3betting from the BTN = easy $$ ime at 50NL
if people aren't stealing your button then so be it. just, be on the look out for it when you have someone loose to your right.
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03-18-2009, 07:18 PM
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#54
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Notorious
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 20,251
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Re: Concept of the Week #7: 3betting
Even in the micros a lot of people open-raise or punish limpers from the CO/Hijack pretty light. Obv it depends on the player, a 6/2/1 Korean not so much...
If you're in doubt, don't get all spewy, but you can certainly look for good spots.
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03-18-2009, 08:22 PM
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#55
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: In Thailand
Posts: 4,500
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Re: Concept of the Week #7: 3betting
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cry Me A River
Even in the micros a lot of people open-raise or punish limpers from the CO/Hijack pretty light. Obv it depends on the player, a 6/2/1 Korean not so much...
If you're in doubt, don't get all spewy, but you can certainly look for good spots.
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I think Something baluga whale was saying in one of his videos about this point and something that annoys me sometimes. when someone 3bets my ISO IP and they have a semi decent hand, I think why don't you just call and play a pot in posision with the fish instead of blowing the fish out of the pot. Obv not all hands are good to play multiway but I think its something to keep in mind.
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03-18-2009, 08:36 PM
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#56
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Aiming for 100% fold to 3b
Posts: 9,999
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Re: Concept of the Week #7: 3betting
Quote:
Originally Posted by richbrown360
I think Something baluga whale was saying in one of his videos about this point and something that annoys me sometimes. when someone 3bets my ISO IP and they have a semi decent hand, I think why don't you just call and play a pot in posision with the fish instead of blowing the fish out of the pot. Obv not all hands are good to play multiway but I think its something to keep in mind.
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Playing against a fish's limp call range is infinitely easier than playing against a fish's limp call range AND an aggro Reg's ISO range, and with the 3b re-ISO you get to have initiative vs a bad player.
knn/threads/cmar/everyone else, I've really taken quite a bit from this thread. I'm going to check my DB for when I call a 3b and try to do some leak-finding tonight. I see now that I don't need to feel so "used" when I keep getting 3b, and that my options can still be 4b if I have a plan or just finding a new table if I'm OOP vs an aggro reg who is going to make life difficult every time I open.
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03-18-2009, 08:53 PM
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#57
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,222
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Re: Concept of the Week #7: 3betting
Quote:
Originally Posted by I vi ii V7
Playing against a fish's limp call range is infinitely easier than playing against a fish's limp call range AND an aggro Reg's ISO range, and with the 3b re-ISO you get to have initiative vs a bad player.
knn/threads/cmar/everyone else, I've really taken quite a bit from this thread. I'm going to check my DB for when I call a 3b and try to do some leak-finding tonight. I see now that I don't need to feel so "used" when I keep getting 3b, and that my options can still be 4b if I have a plan or just finding a new table if I'm OOP vs an aggro reg who is going to make life difficult every time I open.
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I agree with Baluga though. I tend to let the fish in because even though the reg is going to be stuff up, the fish is MORE than going to make up for that.
The bolded part is the best way to do deal with light 3-bettors at these limits.
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03-18-2009, 10:12 PM
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#58
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: In Thailand
Posts: 4,500
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Re: Concept of the Week #7: 3betting
Quote:
Originally Posted by I vi ii V7
Playing against a fish's limp call range is infinitely easier than playing against a fish's limp call range AND an aggro Reg's ISO range, and with the 3b re-ISO you get to have initiative vs a bad player.
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Oh yeah I agree 100% with you but remember that the agro reg has to play his hand way more face up multi way with a fish in the pot. So you actually sometimes have some really good situations.
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03-18-2009, 10:52 PM
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#59
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centurion
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 104
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Re: Concept of the Week #7: 3betting
Interesting OP and points brought up by repliers. Thanks all. Can someone elaborate more on the below?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpethybridge
I don't defend my button or 3 bet out of the blinds nearly as often as knn05 would probably like, but, even so, my range to 3 bet the CO is pretty wide, but it is pretty polarized, too. I don't usually use hands that I can call with and play profitably. Small pocket pairs are good for 3 betting in this type of situation for this reason, as are small suited connectors, especially if the villain has a high fold to c-bet %.
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I read tidbits on polarizing your range here and there but really don't get it. 3bet low pairs and high pairs, but not mid pairs? 3bet high pairs for value, low pairs for fold equity/initiative (hope they fold pf or you hit set or they miss flop and fold to your cbet) and call with mid pairs as they're easy to give up on if no set and they float cbet? Just stabbing to start discussion . . .
Would like to understand more on what to 3bet and why. I know, I know, it's villian/situation dependent but the majority of my play is either with unknowns or knowns with no useful fold to cbet or steal stats (I usually only play for an hour a couple times/week so rarely even have 50 hands on someone). Thanks!
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03-19-2009, 12:15 AM
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#60
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,222
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Re: Concept of the Week #7: 3betting
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedLobstah
Interesting OP and points brought up by repliers. Thanks all. Can someone elaborate more on the below?
I read tidbits on polarizing your range here and there but really don't get it. 3bet low pairs and high pairs, but not mid pairs? 3bet high pairs for value, low pairs for fold equity/initiative (hope they fold pf or you hit set or they miss flop and fold to your cbet) and call with mid pairs as they're easy to give up on if no set and they float cbet? Just stabbing to start discussion . . .
Would like to understand more on what to 3bet and why. I know, I know, it's villian/situation dependent but the majority of my play is either with unknowns or knowns with no useful fold to cbet or steal stats (I usually only play for an hour a couple times/week so rarely even have 50 hands on someone). Thanks!
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The idea with polarized is your range includes big and small hands and no medium hands. You would want to do this because people will tend to call your raise with hands than the big hands beat and hands that fold tend to be better that your small hands. However, if you raise the stuff in the middle it gets better hands to call and worse hands to fold. Hope that helps.
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