Benefits of Starting a table:

-Ability to start deep or 50BB tables as to not play with SS's

I personally prefer to start deep tables so as I don't have to play with the annoying short stacking scum. Starting these tables also forces casual players to buy in for at least 50BB's, keep an eye out for odd buy in sizes like 75.80 at 100NL. You would be surprised how often this is the rest of there bankroll.

-Casual/Weak players in general do not like wait list

This is the biggest reason to start tables, these guys want right in the action and a table that has 1-3 players is the quickest way for them to grab a seat. My best piece of advice for these guys is that if they sit down with you at a table your trying to start and you two are the only ones sitting there you need to sit in and play them. If your wanting to wait till the table starts to get full there is a very good chance these guys will want to get up and leave.

-We generally have an edge against any non reg that sits with us HU or SH

As FR players I personally think we have a tougher job getting the poor players money simply because there are more regs at our tables that are after the same thing we are.

-The ultimate seat selection

When starting a table you have the ability of changing your seat quickly if you don't like where ur at for whatever reason. There is a grey area with this though and it has to do with regs. You really want to try and be somewhat ethical and try to keep a good reputation when changing seats when a table is being started. Also a random fish can sometimes be aware that you are changing seats in order to sit next to them. This may make them feel like the fish and decide to choose another table.

-We get to set the trend for stack sizes at the table

Ever notice those tables that have like 7 people with 35bb stacks? Its usually because the person that started that table short stacked and so the rest of the players that sat down did the same thing. You get to buy in full or deep (depending on site) which in turn will encourage those players to buy in full as well.

-Because its a FR table we don't have to play a crazy HU game

Its not to say that you cant play a crazy aggro HU game, but for the most part its just not needed. These tables will generally fill up very quickly and you will have little need to have a crazy aggro HU dynamic with whoever u are playing.

-We avoid regs cause so many are scared to sit at a table HU or SH

I say this as a generality but you will notice that there are a lot of regs that just refuse to play HU or SH for whatever reason.

-We choose who we play against

I talk about this some more below but its my favorite part about starting tables in that you don't have to sit and play 7 regs at once. If for whatever reason I do decide to sit out at a table that a reg is sitting at I like to ask in the chat box if its ok with him if I sit out. Im well aware this is being overly nice but since I know how it is to start tables and would like the same respect I think its only fair. Also, If I chose not to play a reg HU and another player sits down who is a random I will immediately post my blind and play the reg HU for a hand or two so that the random player is comfortable to post his blind and play HU. The important thing to remember when playing 3 handed in this spot is that even if the reg is much much better than you he is after the same players money that you are.

Pitfalls of Starting a table

-Variance can be higher when play HU or SH

Variance can actually be quite low depending on how you play HU at a FR table. I say that variance can be higher cause if you see the player to your right c/r the river with TP no kicker you are going to have to eventually look him up a little lighter which can result in higher short term variance.

-Solid regs will have a clear edge against us

Like Ive already said and will say again, the cool thing is that you don't have to play these guys if you don't want to. I as a generality will play anyone HU until I know better. I like to set myself a stop loss against a good player and simply sit out or choose a different table if this is the case.

-Can be distracting if we are multi tabling

Depending on how many tables you are playing it can be very distracting to play a aggro player HU so you need to keep that in mind while playing.
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Obv the benefits out way the downfalls by quite a bit and I actually believe I have made a fair assessment of both. So your sitting here and saying to yourself if its so easy how come you don't see more regs doing it? If its like free money then how come every reg doesn't sit down and start a table? The truth is that HU or SH at a FR table scares the living hell out of most regs and in fact for a long time it scared me to. I had a lot of misconceptions about playing SH or HU since I don't believe that is a strong part of my game whatsoever and in fact I was even a little nervous about writing this COW because I didn't know if I was the most qualified to write it. Then I had a glance at my win rate playing SH or HU at a FR table for the last two months at 100NL/200NL and I was shocked to see that I was just plain crushing. This comes from a player that has gone thru some epic swings and still has a win rate playing SH and HU that is well into the positive. So lets dive into how to play when starting a table and the adjustments you need to make.

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Who to start tables with:

The most important thing that you need to remember when starting a table is that you don't have to play anyone you don't want to play. If you start a table and a solid reg that has a clear edge on you sits down and wants to play you HU feel free to sit out (but ask as a curtousey, like already discussed) and wait till more players join the table. In fact if you get a rep at your level for starting tables the regs that you wont play HU will remember this and will most likely have no problem waiting with you for another (hopefully poor player) to sit down. I know all of this sounds simple but I think this is where most regs get scared in that they feel they have to play anyone that sits down in front of them out of some kind of courtesy and this simply isn't the case. This is the part of poker where you really need to check ur ego at the door and not play a game where you know you are -EV. I fell kind of silly telling you that when starting a table you can simply sit out and wait for the table to be full, but I feel that it is somewhat overlooked. This is also a good option at first, although much slower it will still get tables started at peak times.

The Reg:

Ok, so a reg at your level who you know sits down at the table and post his blind and is ready to play. There are a few things that I take into account as to whether or not I will play this reg HU and usually it comes from having good notes when we were playing FR. If I look at my notes and they something to the effect of "Triple Barrel bluffed/shoved river on dry board with ace high against my rivered boat" then I may consider not playing him at all. If I have no notes or I don't consider him to be a real danger/maniacal/crazy then I will post my blind and start to play. I'm not going to try to teach you how to play HU in this article just because HU has so much more of a dynamic than FR or SH poker but I can go over a few things. My best advice for starting hands would be to open with your entire FR Button range and to avoid playing OOP as much as possible. Your goal when playing a reg is really to just break even until more (hopefully poor players) join the table. You have to realize that you are creating a dynamic with this reg and I personally want to have it be that I don't really want to play him but if he stays fairly sane and doesn't do any crazy stuff then I will be happy to sit here and play a few hands with him HU. I personally do my best to avoid the regs that are 3betting me every other hand/Barreling often/C/R multiple streets basically anything that requires me to put a ton of thought into my game with them. I know this comes off like sounding like a wussy way to play but the truth is that its a simple low variance way to play and I can promise you that there are regs that think the same way I do. You will know who these guys are and will be happy to play a few hands until other players join. I mean we play FR poker so that we can play lots of tables, have lower variance, and easier thought processes so don't add in a crazy element to your game when ur trying to do those things. You will find out what kind of player this reg is HU and you will know if you are at least neutral EV in the game against him. If you feel after a few hands that they do have a serious edge on you than like I said check ur ego and sit out.

The other thing I would like to address against playing reg is about respect. If you decide to sit down at a table that a reg is starting it is only right to sit across from him instead of on his direct left or right. More than just respect this is just some common sense, who needs to sit next to a reg when u can sit to the left of 4 random players. The exception to this courtesy comes when the tables gets 5-6 handed and you decide to sit down. I will take the seat that I think is going to be the most profitable and lowest variance. I talked about this briefly in the past but I prefer to have the 11/7 type regs on my left and have the random players on my right if I can help it.

The Casual Player:

This for the most part should be ur cash cow of starting tables and playing HU or SH. Think of it like this, your sitting at a FR table with 5 regs,2 short stacks and 1 player running 88/22 over 90 hands. Who are you looking to play the most pots against? Hopefully you already know the answer to this and you will soon find out that several of these players will be happy to sit down and start a table with you. You need to do your best to take as much money from these players as quickly as you can but still try to keep your sanity since these players can be slightly higher variance to play against. If you are a winner at your stakes you really shouldn't need much help in extracting money from this type of player. There really doesn't need to be much discussion on this but I will tell you that you should be doing all you can to play against as many of these players as possible.

Adjusting to number of players:

Basically just use some common sense here in that the closer we are to the button and the better our position the more we should be using it to our advantage. Don't be afraid to open hands like KJo or 67s UTG in a 5 handed game against weak competition. I talk about this below in my software sub-topic but is important to have stats for the amount of players you are playing against. Remember that you are not the only one opening up your range for shorthanded play, other regs will do the same and if you have stats to help you it will make it all that much easier.

Software help:

I personally have all my play on FTP and one of the greatest things about there software has to be there color coded note system. If you have color coded players that you played with at FR it will make it easier to know who you are going to want to play against. My color coding looks something like this:

Red - Solid Reg
Purple - Reg that is basically an empty seat (think 11/7 type player)
Yellow* - Solid Laggy Reg
Green - Extremely poor player that I have seen make spewey plays (Not just based on stats)
Orange - SS
Blue - Someone that I want to take a note on that doesn't fall into any category

*I have very few players marked this color but this personally is a player who I will not sit to the direct right of. Typically this player will have a 3bet % of over 7% and playing a 19/17 or looser style. Also a player I wont play HU against.

The last time I played at stars there was no color coding so unless you are using HEM color coded note system* (which I have no experience with) so you will have to make do with there note system. Remember that you don't necessarily have to take a note on every player but just having a color next to the player can help you decide quickly and without actually playing a hand as to whether or not you want to play this person HU.

*Available on any site that allows HEM

The other thing that you need to do before playing any HU or SH poker is to configure HEM or PT3 so that only HU or SH hands are being taken into account. The most important thing to remember here is that the sample size will generally be very small so most of the stats you have will not converge very quickly. The idea here is to be able to see if the 11/7 nit while 9 handed is playing 28/22 while 5 handed. Like Ive said before some of these guys really do adjust so you need to make sure you have the stats to make your decisions slightly easier. All that being said don't be surprised if even regs that you have 20k hands on have only play 300-400 SH hands with you.

If your looking on in game strat on starting table I recommend checking out my latest video which deals with starting tables at 50NL.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78...17/?highlight=

Furst

FURSTEND

i thought it was interesting but i still like to sit direct position of table starter. to piss them off if nothing else

Cool post. A couple of my thoughts:

First, my usual routine when starting a session is as follows:
* sit in on a number of empty deep tables
* sit in on a number of extremely shorthanded tables
* peruse the lobby for good tables and sit in or get on the waitlist as appropriate

This means I am playing shorthanded at the time I am playing the fewest tables and can put more focus on them. Often when I get to 12+ tables and if one of the HU/SH tables isn't "started" I will just close it and go with a decent full table.


Also, I will play a suboptimal preflop game when HU or SH, especially against a fish. I will limp preflop almost always instead of raising, and might even call a pfr a little light. Now, standard level1 ABC table selection says get on the tables with the highest player/flop and biggest pot sizes. By gaming the stats and inflating the payer/flop at my tables, I think I give them a better chance of filling. Not that I have evidence for this, but its not a lot of EV I'm giving up and it makes me feel better.

There was a time when I use to do this. I thought it would cause the reg to play poorly and set up a nice aggro grudge match. The next thing I know regs are refusing to start tables with me, there outplaying me and generally making starting table a real pain. The idea here isnt to try and play a bunch or regs heads up the idea is to start a great table and get lots of free money.

I would have to say I disagree with this and you generally wont catch me limping the button unless I am being 3bet a ton. If your trying to increase the plys/flop that is displayed in the lobby the random is going to be calling enough raises OOP to make it so that stat stays plenty high.

Wow jason. This is one of the best posts I've read in a LONG time. This is the kind of advice that probably took quite a lot of your $ to learn too. Extra kudos for taking the time to explain things so eloquently. Those who pay attention have just saved themselves some learning curve money.

A note about the odd buy in size players (doesn't really apply to starting new tables though. Apologies for the tangent)...

Even before I got HEM, I realized that people who buy in for odd amounts like 75.80 or 63.42 are absolutely playing with their entire bankroll (I call them bankrollers). Additionally, they are often used to play lower stakes than what ever table they just sat down with an odd fractional buy-in. There are a few regs who buy in for odd amounts, but since regs are easily identifiable by an Iron Man Medal or their handle being memorable, you don't have to worry about them.

However, most bankrollers are single tabling fish. It is just a matter of time before they lose their entire stack/roll, and log off. Very rarely will these types of fish reload.

They're unsophisticated players without HEM/PT. Open up your range against them, isolate when ever possible. Play top pairs for stacks. They are passive players, more likely to crai with draws, limp-raise pre 99-AK, LRAI pre with 99-AK. And they'll call you down for their entire stacks - so be sure to bet accordingly with your top pairs and your draws. They're not folding, so if you have position and you have a draw... don't expect them to fold their middle pair no draw.

Focusing on Starting Tables... My personal edge is at full ring tables when playing full stacked... so I rarely start new ones. The exception is when there aren't many deep tables running. On the average day, I simply add myself to 25-30 wait lists, and I only take a seat when one is available on a table with 7+ full stacks. I don't really care if I'm against 7 regs or not... because I still feel that I have an edge. My friend says that I'm asking for trouble because most of our profits come from fish, and not regs... but my track record proves I can valuetown the regs just as easily (except for the OP who owns me). Thoughts about my usual route of playing at any reg-heavy table as long as everyone is 100BB deep?

Man are you ever right. I got owned for so long playing HU trying to start FR tables. There was a point in time where I would basically play any reg on any amount of tables and I dont have to tell you unless ur a seriously good player that this is a horrible idea.

I would say I agree with almost everything you wrote here. Actually this is the exact reason why I dont table select using any kind of software. So many of these types of players are going to make that one deposit to see what online poker is all about and basically never play again. There is no HUD stats to tell you anything about them so know your odd stack regs and table select to find the guys who really are sitting down with there entire bankroll.

This really depends on a ton of things. I feel like I personally have an edge on the majority of the field at 100NL (even more deep) but as you move up unless you have some serious talent this will become less and less true. There is quite a difference in a table filled with 14/12's who hardly 3bet you light and being cold 4bet by a strong aggressive player at 400NL. Whenever I step down to play Ill basically play any deep 100NL table but this is not the case at 200NL+ for me anyways.

hey, finally somebody else understands this concept

Yeah if you try to take direct position on a table starter then you're going to create problems for yourself because the starter will do the same thing to you etc... plus why would you want to sit near a good player? get them on the other side of the table yo!

But seriously, good post jason. Pretty much hit on all the topics and covered them real well. You guys would be shocked at how much money the table starters are making off of the fish that sit. Im not sure I saw this in your post but one other benefit is that when you start tables they tend to fill quickly when you get to 3+ handed. What ends up happening is that regs who aren't checking the lobby often enough will get shut out of the game and you'll have 30+ mins of super soft deep table action.

great posts:

I like to add this about starting tables:

Learn to play HU, watch videos, visit the HU forum but work on this part of the game. It will also help you with blind play.

Playing against FR regs HU is EASY MONEY. That is right, I said FR regs are easy money to play HU against since a lot of them don't adjust, or they don't adjust to YOUR HU game.

For instance I run about 16/13 in FR, but I do have a HU game I adopted which is a lot wider than that. Well if the reg is a HUD bot, you can run over them for awhile, but if they do adjust, they usually over adjust and don't learn about controlling pot sizes, showdown value or general aggression. So you basically your strategy is to win small pots with garbage, call down with good showdown value, and learn to get money in when you think you are ahead.

Another thing I notice, is at NL50 there are a few HU regs that will go to the tables and try to play HU against the FR regs. While these players are generally better HU than I am, they classify me as the FR nit that I am able to take advantage with the element of surprise.
Along with being able to sit alone with an action junkie, there are a lot of advantage to starting tables.

Before the TV era, Doyle Brunson described what he and Chip Reese would do as, "opening the store." They'd start a high stakes table and generally pass money back and forth until people came in. While I'm sure each believed they had a slight edge against the other, they knew they had a big edge against the fish who could be attracted. Their goal was to go for fat value, not thin value. Busting the other meant that the table would just close.

The other unmentioned issue is that if the table looks like it is going to be a cage death match event, the fish are going to get up and leave. They are looking for a what looks like a friendly table with people who are playing mainly for laughs and fun. 3betting and 4betting continually isn't friendly or fun for a fish.

nice post jasons.

Btw for those who already didn't know this, if you have HEm and if you double click on a player's stats it turns red and shows you stats for that particular session. You can use it to find out when for instance jugs is in the mood to 3-bet every one of your opens or when he is just playing 15 tables and so has no time to pay attention to you :P This si very true vs regs vs who you have like say 3k to 5k hands but ofcourse their game and yours change all the time and short term stats are also important to know

Good post. I don't consider myself a good HU player by any means, but I definitely own the 60bb buyin casual player.

Aside from starting tables which is very EV, I also like to join like every table with less than 5 players as it is usually the type of table I like. 4 player tables is where my winrate is the highest, and I think its a mixture of being very fishy, but I can play a little bit more quality starting hands without too much pressure from the blinds.