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Micro Stakes Full Ring Discussion of up to .25/.50 online no-limit pot-limit Texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

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Old 08-12-2012, 03:00 PM   #1
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5NL - KK otb facing huge 4-bet shove on drawy flop

Straightforward enough spot. Villain is 12/10 - is this an automatic call? Feels like he's got a set a very high % of the time here.

Any thoughts on it, much appreciated.

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (9 max) - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

CO: $2.00
Hero (BTN): $7.44
SB: $2.02
BB: $9.75
UTG: $4.93
UTG+1: $9.57
MP: $5.59

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero has K K

fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.15, fold, BB calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.32, 2 players) 5 8 9
BB checks, Hero bets $0.25, BB raises to $0.57, Hero raises to $1.90, BB raises to $9.60 and is all-in
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Old 08-12-2012, 03:06 PM   #2
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Re: 5NL - KK otb facing huge 4-bet shove on drawy flop

I would say just about 90% of the time when this has happened to me in 4NL it has been a set the other 10% would probably be QQ+ here. I usually regret calling these.
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Old 08-12-2012, 03:09 PM   #3
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Re: 5NL - KK otb facing huge 4-bet shove on drawy flop

Just fold this one
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Old 08-12-2012, 04:35 PM   #4
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Re: 5NL - KK otb facing huge 4-bet shove on drawy flop

i'm folding this almost always, because 4bet/shove at micros means "MoNsTeR". Only time i don't fold this is when i have some sick read over villain (very rarely) or he's super duper aggro freak.

Last edited by CardBurner; 08-12-2012 at 05:00 PM.
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Old 08-12-2012, 06:40 PM   #5
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Re: 5NL - KK otb facing huge 4-bet shove on drawy flop

TT-QQ is unlikely here. Fold iyam
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:47 PM   #6
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Re: 5NL - KK otb facing huge 4-bet shove on drawy flop

Thanks for the replies, everyone. Feels like I made a good fold!
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Old 08-12-2012, 08:42 PM   #7
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Re: 5NL - KK otb facing huge 4-bet shove on drawy flop

Ya definitely a good fold, calling an all-in here is never good
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Old 08-12-2012, 10:45 PM   #8
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Why are we reraising if it isn't for the purpose of stacking off? I can't see a logical reason behind this raise that is followed by a fold. Are we bluffing with KK? And what are we trying to fold out?
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Old 08-13-2012, 12:17 AM   #9
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Re: 5NL - KK otb facing huge 4-bet shove on drawy flop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicham009 View Post
Why are we reraising if it isn't for the purpose of stacking off? I can't see a logical reason behind this raise that is followed by a fold. Are we bluffing with KK? And what are we trying to fold out?
we're not bluffing KK, we're just with an overpair facing a raise on a dry board with a possible straight which hits villain perceived range perfectly, he could easily have a straight there, set, or 2-pair.

I think after you got raised on this board, calling>4-betting, because you will get shoved-called by better and fold worse ALMOST EVERY TIME(hands which may call you would be TT-QQ or some weird A9.

And since villain did his min-raise, if you think you've got a good hand, use villains mistakes against him, he min-raised you giving you a chance to call cheaply! if he leads with aggression betting hard, you can safely fold.

Also since he seems tricky, he may try to check-raise you OTT again, so you just check behind and disarm him.

If you still think your KK are ok there, you can call a turn bet(even a pot sized bet).

If you do this play in the way you will at least see 4 showdowns calling istead of 1 showdown shoving =)

as played, fold to the shove, if villain is retarded, it's ok to call.
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Old 08-13-2012, 12:39 AM   #10
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Re: 5NL - KK otb facing huge 4-bet shove on drawy flop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapidesh123 View Post
we're not bluffing KK, we're just with an overpair facing a raise on a dry board with a possible straight which hits villain perceived range perfectly, he could easily have a straight there, set, or 2-pair.

I think after you got raised on this board, calling>4-betting, because you will get shoved-called by better and fold worse ALMOST EVERY TIME(hands which may call you would be TT-QQ or some weird A9.

And since villain did his min-raise, if you think you've got a good hand, use villains mistakes against him, he min-raised you giving you a chance to call cheaply! if he leads with aggression betting hard, you can safely fold.

Also since he seems tricky, he may try to check-raise you OTT again, so you just check behind and disarm him.

If you still think your KK are ok there, you can call a turn bet(even a pot sized bet).

If you do this play in the way you will at least see 4 showdowns calling istead of 1 showdown shoving =)

as played, fold to the shove, if villain is retarded, it's ok to call.
I don't think you quite get what I'm asking OP. If we re-raise KK here and fold to a re-reraise what are we doing with our hand once we fold? Essentially turning it into a bluff. I just don't see the purpose of making this huge raise and fold once he jams.

If we raised because we wanted to stack off, I'd say this all made a lot of sense. But I can not figure out a logical reason to raise this big and fold to a shove.

Btw when a nit check/raises us on this board, it's almost always monsters. So saying we raised here to see if he shoves so that we then can safely assume we're beat also wont suffice as a reason.
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