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Old 07-02-2012, 08:08 PM   #1
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5NL: JTo on the BB

Mistake in title. JTo on the button

Poker Stars $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players

Hero (BTN): $2.09
SB: $5.07
BB: $4.95
UTG: $5.42
MP: $5.19
CO: $5.00

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero is BTN with J T
3 folds, Hero raises to $0.20, 1 fold, BB calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.42) J A 8 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero? ...

No stats on the villain.
As the preflop aggressor I want to bet here.
But is it good play?
What about post flop play?

For the interested, here is what happened:
Spoiler:

Last edited by hero89; 07-02-2012 at 08:11 PM. Reason: mistake
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Old 07-02-2012, 08:19 PM   #2
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Re: 5NL: JTo on the BB

This is the FR forum, not SH.

Either way, cbet 0.25. We get value from draws and PPs that don't like folding.

Giving up on most turns though, as we have SDV.
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Old 07-02-2012, 09:04 PM   #3
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Re: 5NL: JTo on the BB

This could have been a full ring table running short handed.

I think a check is best here, since no worse hand calls. If we cbet it is pretty much a bluff. We're not really semi-bluffing with a 5-out draw since we don't know if our T out is any good due to KQ filling a gutshot, so I'm normally happy to check this kind of hand down and maybe throw out a river bet if no more overcards come on the turn or river, OR we make trips/two pair at some point and then I can play for a small to medium sized pot.
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Old 07-03-2012, 12:12 PM   #4
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Re: 5NL: JTo on the BB

1. Are you using short-stack strategy? If no , why you are not 100BB deep?
2. Flop – bet 2/3 pot sized bet. Becouse if u jump into such pot with JTo , this is what you expected right? Mid-Pair? If u have expected Mid-Pair you - bet, that was ur plan? The was no point of starting a hand with such cards if you do not c-bet such a flop. If Mid-pair looks too weak for you to c-bet , don’t go into the pot with JTo then.
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Old 07-03-2012, 01:50 PM   #5
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Re: 5NL: JTo on the BB

Quote:
Originally Posted by to late mate View Post
1. Are you using short-stack strategy? If no , why you are not 100BB deep?
2. Flop – bet 2/3 pot sized bet. Becouse if u jump into such pot with JTo , this is what you expected right? Mid-Pair? If u have expected Mid-Pair you - bet, that was ur plan? The was no point of starting a hand with such cards if you do not c-bet such a flop. If Mid-pair looks too weak for you to c-bet , don’t go into the pot with JTo then.
Ill agree with point 1... OP should buy in full

But i have to disagree with point 2.

Before i go on, OP, a 4x open sizing from the button is so far out of date its untrue... As is the argument that you should "never open raise less than 3x" - Steals OTB can be made to 2.5x for a huge improvement in your WR.

Anyway, JTo is a perfectly fine hand to steal with - even vs unknowns.

There is more reasons to open this pot than just for value... Its a steal attempt, you got called, play post flop poker.

Also this betting because we entered the pot nonsense is exactly that... nonsense. Dont ever bet because you feel the need to do so. You either bet for value or as a bluff. If you dont have a clue why were betting or your just auto 2/3 potting this flop for no real reason, I suggest some dramatic changes in your CB game - Gone are the days you can open raise pre flop, bet flop, win...

Here we have a tonne of SDV so I would likely take that as aposed to the flop thin value. - We also get the chance to incude a turn bluff or v. to ch/c lighter...

My default, if I dont fancy the thin value here, call (or bet) turn and evaluate river.
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Old 07-04-2012, 08:44 AM   #6
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Re: 5NL: JTo on the BB

Buy in full and c-bet the flop. I'd slowdown if he calls your flop bet.

People at these stakes will defend their blinds with absolute garbage, and more often than not fold to a standard c-bet on any board.
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Old 07-04-2012, 02:46 PM   #7
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Re: 5NL: JTo on the BB

Quote:
Originally Posted by therightdeal View Post
Buy in full and c-bet the flop. I'd slowdown if he calls your flop bet.

People at these stakes will defend their blinds with absolute garbage, and more often than not fold to a standard c-bet on any board.
If people are defending their blind with garbage, then why are we trying to make them correctly fold it with our cbet when we have them beat?

A check behind may induce the villain to take an unsuccessful stab on the turn since they have no other way of winning the pot and our flop check could make them think we have nothing and are giving up.
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Old 07-04-2012, 06:39 PM   #8
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Re: 5NL: JTo on the BB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokie View Post
If people are defending their blind with garbage, then why are we trying to make them correctly fold it with our cbet when we have them beat?
Biggest leak at the micros-people call too much and usually with dominated hands.
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Old 07-06-2012, 06:19 AM   #9
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Re: 5NL: JTo on the BB

Quote:
Originally Posted by MartL View Post
Biggest leak at the micros-people call too much and usually with dominated hands.
But JTo doesn't really dominate anything that is likely to give us action when we are the ones betting and showing strength.
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Old 07-06-2012, 01:06 PM   #10
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Re: 5NL: JTo on the BB

Aye, I don't like a bet here. We're hoping that vil has defended with J9 or worse and his calling range consists of more hands like that than hands better than ours, or that he'll fold better hands than ours enough to make a bluff profitable. We're in position, check behind with the intention of calling a turn bet and folding to a subsequent river bet, or betting the turn if checked to.

Also, make a note that he defended his blind with A2o.
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Old 07-06-2012, 01:15 PM   #11
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Re: 5NL: JTo on the BB

bet 3 streets
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