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Old 05-27-2012, 01:22 AM   #1
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50nl zoom - AA in mw 3b pot needs turn plan

MP1 - random recreational-looking player. running 19/9 over 90 or so and had called the only 3b he had faced.
BTN - ultra-mega-nit. 8/7/3.0% 3b/36% fcbet over 4.3k hands. is really quite bad and nitty, and tends to take really goofy (and plain terrible) lines. i don't have a ton of history with him, but needless to say he plays fairly face-up when the pot gets large.

pretty simple really - what are we doing here? c/f, b/f vs. nit, b/f vs. both or b/c vs. fishy and b/f vs. nit? can see arguments for all of them. i can see the nit peeling flop with most of the hands he cold-calls pre with (JJ+ and occasionally AQs, prob dumps AK)

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer
SB ($68.88)
BB ($55.58)
UTG ($292)
UTG+1 ($225)
UTG+2 ($47.19)
MP1 ($86.98)
Hero ($54.59)
CO ($94.94)
BTN ($52.95)

Dealt to Hero A A

fold, fold, fold, MP1 raises to $1.50, Hero raises to $4.75, fold, BTN calls $4.75, fold, fold, MP1 calls $3.25

FLOP ($15) Q 2 T

MP1 checks, Hero bets $8, BTN calls $8, MP1 calls $8

TURN ($39) Q 2 T 8

MP1 checks, Hero needs a plan ($41.84 behind)
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Old 05-27-2012, 01:37 AM   #2
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Re: 50nl zoom - AA in mw 3b pot needs turn plan

I'm kind of a nit myself... and in this situation I will have either QQ or TT and trying to keep the fish in the hand just by calling the aggresor, given the board is quite safe for my set. The 3-bet preflop calling range from btn contains alot of pocketpairs and only AK, unless he is a thinking player, but I doubt that given his stats(lvl1 player). I would give up on turn.
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Old 05-27-2012, 04:39 AM   #3
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Check give up IMO. The nit only has KK that you beat and nits are gonna nit so he will probably check that back on turn.

If it checks through on the turn I think we can bet small on the river for the value from KK from the nit and Qx from the fish.
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Old 05-27-2012, 05:18 AM   #4
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Quote:
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I'm kind of a nit myself... and in this situation I will have either QQ or TT and trying to keep the fish in the hand just by calling the aggresor, given the board is quite safe for my set. The 3-bet preflop calling range from btn contains alot of pocketpairs and only AK, unless he is a thinking player, but I doubt that given his stats(lvl1 player). I would give up on turn.
I think kk is also in btn's range
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Old 05-27-2012, 05:19 AM   #5
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Check give up IMO. The nit only has KK that you beat and nits are gonna nit so he will probably check that back on turn.

If it checks through on the turn I think we can bet small on the river for the value from KK from the nit and Qx from the fish.
agree, i prefer check. Dont think we miss value here
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Old 05-27-2012, 05:39 AM   #6
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Re: 50nl zoom - AA in mw 3b pot needs turn plan

If we think he has AQs in his range sometimes, how do we think he plays it OTT? If we check? If we bet?
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Old 05-27-2012, 06:55 AM   #7
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Re: 50nl zoom - AA in mw 3b pot needs turn plan

b/c turn
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Old 05-27-2012, 07:32 AM   #8
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Re: 50nl zoom - AA in mw 3b pot needs turn plan

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b/c turn
b/c against both or b/c vs. the fish and b/f vs. the nit? coz if it's the 2nd one i agree with you.

for people saying check, assuming that the nit has JJ/QQ/KK/AQs as his flop continuing range, why would we check? nits don't like to fold when they have big hands generally - they're dumb unthinking players. we lose to 3 combos of QQ, there are 6 combos of KK we beat which i don't think he'll fold all that readily, we fold out 6 combos of JJ, and he probably calls the only 2 combos of AQs (AQss maybe, AQcc definitely with the NFD now). if we think he's gonna continue with this range, then why should we check? plus we miss all the value from the tons of Qx/Tx/draws that the recreational player has.
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Old 05-27-2012, 10:26 AM   #9
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Re: 50nl zoom - AA in mw 3b pot needs turn plan

Bet.

Wanna stack the fish and he has a bunch of pair+draw/pure draw type hands that will call now then sigh call the river.

Think putting AQ in the nits range is pretty generous imo, as in JJ. That means your still ahead of him 6/9 out of the time here tho.
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Old 05-27-2012, 03:44 PM   #10
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Re: 50nl zoom - AA in mw 3b pot needs turn plan

given it's so close I'll either bet ~15$ or I'll check to the btn knowing his action will give me a pretty accurate view on his handstrenght. you would set yourself in a tough spot on the river tho, so I think betting yourself is better

I'm not sure why you're so confident he cold calls your 3bet with AQs, it's an 8/7 over a large sample. even if he's on smth like 10/8 he is not always calling here imo.
super-Nits don't play the button.
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Old 05-27-2012, 04:54 PM   #11
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Re: 50nl zoom - AA in mw 3b pot needs turn plan

bleffo once u bet, u are commited and cant fold because nit can shove with KK, so b/c against both, just happy b/c against fish and sad b/c against nit
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Old 05-27-2012, 09:02 PM   #12
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Re: 50nl zoom - AA in mw 3b pot needs turn plan

I like a check. When you bet strong, nit will fold everything that's not a set. If he checks back, you can probably take him to valuetown OTR. If he bets, you can just fold.
This plan has the obvious downside of missing value from the fish/having him possibly realize equity for free.
I don't think the nit ever shoves KK to a turn bet. I also strongly disagree he has AQ in his range here, especially since I remember OP playing TAG.
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Old 05-27-2012, 09:16 PM   #13
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Re: 50nl zoom - AA in mw 3b pot needs turn plan

i disagree that we should b/c vs. both, but i do think i should bet. pretty sure the nit never shoves anything that isn't {QQ}

i bet $12, nit folds, fish min-raises to $24. are we happy to b/3b AI?
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Old 05-28-2012, 06:41 AM   #14
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Re: 50nl zoom - AA in mw 3b pot needs turn plan

nits are weak, once u bet turn, he definitely shove his KK because he say to himself he gonna stack off anyway on river and its pretty much minraise, i would bet 20 and call

as played i shove, i know turn minraises from fishes are strong but u betted smallish so he could raise for some stupid reasons with KQ or something, also go bigger preflop
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Old 05-28-2012, 07:09 AM   #15
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Re: 50nl zoom - AA in mw 3b pot needs turn plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by bleffo19 View Post
i disagree that we should b/c vs. both,
Theres no way you can bet/fold in this spot. Also do you know anything more about the guy who everyone assumes is a fish? I mean 19/9 after 90 hands is not overly fishy.
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