Welcome back to the range game! The game where we talk about ranges and other fun and meticulous things! Here is the info you get:

50NL at RUSH

BB = 20/0 over 4 hands
SB = 13/7 over 50 hands (0% 3bet)
BUT = 18/14 over 120 hands (2% 3bet)

Hero = nitTAG

RUSH $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

BB: $63.20
UTG: $23.50
UTG+1: $18.20
UTG+2: $52.10
MP1: $96.30
MP2: $26.30
Hero (CO): $69.35
BTN: $167.80
SB: $84.05

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is CO with :X: :X:
5 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, 2 folds, BB calls $1

Flop: ($3.25) 3 8 K (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1.80, BB raises to $3.60, Hero calls $1.80

Let's start here and have some fun =)

Did BB just now sit down and you played 4 hands with him sometime before, or did he post from MP1?

my bad. RUSH. so rando hands from rando seats

Well your preflop range should be wide open so w/e....BB will prob defend pretty wide all broadways, all pairs, lots of medium/high SCs, sooted aces, some medium sooted kings, basically really wide...he prob cares more about its "his" big blind than he cares about position, so he prob flats wider than normal.

His range for c/minR imo is not super strong. This looks like a classic information raise with Kx hands, some 8x hands occasionally and some other pairs. Yes sometimes he is stronger but I wouldent weight his range to be too strong for the most part.

I don't think you are going to bet/float his minR since I don't think you expect you to be able to take him off anything on future streets, so you are going to have a made hand or a FD here the majority of the time. Maybe you peel with 99+ or maybe tighter idk, ill go with 99-QQ, KT(maybe some weaker kings depending how wide you are opening pre)-KQ(AK sometimes) and a bunch of FD combos. Anything stronger you prob b/3b. Anything weaker you prob fold. 99-QQ is debatable as well you might fold those since his range contains a lot of Kx, but IP you prob get to showdown pretty cheap with the best hand a decent amount to peel here. Also occasionally you will flat sets but not that often deepish with the 2flush board, tho I expect 20/0 types(4 hands lol I know) to c/c draws...with more info on agg freq we could put more draws in his range.

Also I could be off by a lot since I'm thinking under the assumption that he leans towards being loose passive. For all I know he is 20/0 because he flatted an open IP one time...do you remember any hand he played, did he open limp?

why is this "sometimes"?

Sometimes meaning you b/3b that some of the time. KQ possibly even KJ as well, obv less and less as you go down in kickers.

are you ever doing it with KQ? if so, why?

B/3b you mean? Prob not because we have 4 hands on the guy. With more info sure I would, because he's just not folding a worse king ever. Mostly default to flatting and then calling down or betting when checked to, maybe pot controlling on turns I don't like. Also if he doesn't slow down and bombs the turn and then jams the river I would have to seriously consider folding without a read that he is aggro with marginal hands. AK is closer to b/3b but not by too much, I really don't wanna b/3b and get shoved on since I expect most guys(and by most guys I mean guys loose passives who are bad at poker and will minR K9 here for information and then never fold anyway) to raise/call way more often then raise/ship with a hand we beat, but b/3b folding is just something I will not do without some specific reason behind it. Basically I don't want to b/3b and then have to grimace if they ship, I want to be confident we are good enough of the time vs their shipping range, we don't know that here so I'd default to calling.

Hero's range is usually pretty wide from the CO here, say, 35ish%, depoled, of course. But this time he spies a button who's capable of playing back. Sure, only 120 hands and 2% 3bet, but I expect that to rise over time. Hero decides to pitch the bottom of that 35% range including everything in it that's 'junk'.

Hero has 66+, A2s+, AT+, KT+, QT+, JT+, a few other SCs. He is a nit, afterall.

With no hands on Villain, we'll just give him a calling range of 22-TT, all broadway combinations, and a bunch of pretty looking SCs and even some unsuited crap like T9, A2+, most Kings, and stuff I'm forgetting cuz 'we need to see a flop'.

Flop comes and Villain makes a standard CR cuz that's what all the cool kids are doing. It's meaning is tough to discern without reads at the moment.

Hero, on the other hand, being the nitTAG that he is, can easily have:

A) Flush draw because he's getting a sick price to draw.
B) A hand that has showdown value, but wants to see a non-spade turn.
C) Most of his pairs, but not 88, cuz he ain't messing around on this board with a set.

Let's see what villain does on the turn and reevaluate.

Let's just fast forward to the fun stuff...


Full Tilt Poker $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

BB: $63.20
UTG: $23.50
UTG+1: $18.20
UTG+2: $52.10
MP1: $96.30
MP2: $26.30
Hero (CO): $69.35
BTN: $167.80
SB: $84.05

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is CO with :X: :X:
5 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, 2 folds, BB calls $1

Flop: ($3.25) 3 8 K (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1.80, BB raises to $3.60, Hero calls $1.80

Turn: ($10.45) 2 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

River: ($10.45) 3 (2 players)
BB bets $3, Hero raises to $9.30

ranges?

Just something to note, I've been seeing an increase in the frequency of people check minraising flops like this with random AJ/AQ hands that have no piece of the board, and small-middle pairs at NL50 rush. Only in late position vs blind situations. It's wierd.

The reason why it is less likely Hero is nutted is stack depth rather than board texture.
There is only one draw out there and if he was nutted then he is only worried about 8 outs vs a FD.

You of course should severely discount sets but if he was to have a set top set is the most likely with this line - given how hard to would be for villian to have a hand to c/r and a hand to call a 3bet on the flop.

I think Heros range is wide - particularly given the value only 3bet range from the player in position.

I dont know - what Hero exactly means when he says nitTAG.......but it might mean he has a nitty CO range than usual.

Which would prolly discount all combinations of 2pr holdings.

So whilst it is not impossible.

At best his nutted range is 1 combo of sets and maaaaybe one combo of K8s.

He probably he something like 15 combos of FDs......I do not see him bet/3betting FDs 140bb deep particularly when it is unlikely that he gets the last bet in. He might have less FDs if he is actually nittier than my guess.

He has 60 combos of Kx in his c-betting range.
In position he prolly thinly v-bets qq-JJ ten combos. - they prolly bet/call a minraise particularly those with a spade - 12 combos

I would discount all non set pairs they are prolly in his checking back range - I guess he could have a protection bet mentality but I would discount it myself.

He prolly only bets 8x spades of which 3 combos already counted. If you count 8x he might prolly would be betting all pairs in between.

Then there is his air............I would think IP vs a wide range on Kxx flushing and dry - he would c-bet his entire air............most of which would fold - if there are any floats they with be 3Str8 clubs and maybe Ax boradway clubs.

I dont think Hero has a bet/3bet bluff range - but if he did it is prolly some of the worst hands he might not choose to float again clubs....... so if you believe he does not float and bet/3bet bluffs then you should prolly discount bdfd combos.


Villians range can be broken down into:

Check raise because I think I have the best hand - Can be weakish Kx suited he defended some medium PPs 8x.
Check raise FDs - if he does c/r draws which we cannot know then a c/min kinda makes sense from fishey player particularly if he does not want to apply real FE and not have any idea if he bricks the turn.
Check raise value - AK KQ KJ - all of these are in a fishey players c/ minraise value hand
Nutted hands KK ( small discount no 3b pre 2 of 3 combos) 88 33 K8s (2 combos) K3s (3 combos) = 13 combos

Rando no pair spazzmonkiness - prolly 10% of his total range.

If hero is the nittag you say he is, his range is just about entirely boats/quads on the river. I'm not sure why he would just call the minraise on the flop, though, if he had a set (except for top set maybe) and expected villain to have a flushdraw with any frequency. A nittag hero would need alot more information than he has to make value raises with anything that isn't a fullhouse+ on this river.

I am thinking BB probably has a weak K, maybe something like 8x 99/TT, or even air/ace high hands, since we can't rule out he's a fish. Not likely he's calling any raises unless he did have a flush, but I would have expected him to barrel that on the turn most of the time. Possible that we could also have some kind of delayed set over set shipfest on the river with nittag hero holding KK and BB holding 88 but unlikely.

Villian is giving up a ton when he checks the turn...............just saying.

Yeah, I agree with you 100%.