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NL Full Ring: QTo in BB vs min raise. Semi bluff on turn the right move? NL Full Ring: QTo in BB vs min raise. Semi bluff on turn the right move?

04-24-2016 , 12:26 PM
Called pre bc with this price it would be wrong to fold right? I could 3B but V was practically a calling station and would get me into a deeper pot. Flop gets me middle pair so I call, plus the bet was too small. OTT I pick up added outs but could also be drawing dead if V was on Flush. I decided to take a c/r stab here in case there was any fold equity. After the call and river I could not reasonably continue so x/f there.

Right play? Or full of leaks?

888 Poker - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG+1: 139 BB (VPIP: 45.95, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 37)
MP: 100 BB (VPIP: 14.53, PFR: 6.84, 3Bet Preflop: 6.45, Hands: 117)
MP+1: 83 BB (VPIP: 66.67, PFR: 33.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
MP+2: 6 BB (VPIP: 29.63, PFR: 3.70, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 27)
CO: 103.5 BB (VPIP: 15.00, PFR: 7.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 40)
BTN: 154.5 BB (VPIP: 67.86, PFR: 32.14, 3Bet Preflop: 23.08, Hands: 29)
SB: 100 BB (VPIP: 22.50, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 40)
Hero (BB): 142 BB
UTG: 100 BB (VPIP: 10.92, PFR: 9.30, 3Bet Preflop: 4.92, Hands: 176)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q T

fold, fold, fold, fold, MP+2 calls 1 BB, fold, BTN raises to 2 BB, fold, Hero calls 1 BB, fold

Flop: (5.5 BB, 2 players) 3 K T
Hero checks, BTN bets 1.5 BB, Hero calls 1.5 BB

Turn: (8.5 BB, 2 players) J
Hero checks, BTN bets 4 BB, Hero raises to 12 BB, BTN calls 8 BB

River: (32.5 BB, 2 players) 2
Hero checks, BTN bets 24 BB, fold,
NL Full Ring: QTo in BB vs min raise. Semi bluff on turn the right move? Quote
04-24-2016 , 02:53 PM
I'm not really looking to try and make this player type fold. I want to let him have the lead and spew off his money when I've got TPGK+.
NL Full Ring: QTo in BB vs min raise. Semi bluff on turn the right move? Quote
04-30-2016 , 11:52 AM
Personally I'm folding pre. You've got the 2nd Jesus seat on him so just play heaps of hands v him ip. There's no shame in folding in the blinds.

If you forced me to call, I would c/c every street. Crai works here v other opponents but you are turning your hand into a bluff.
NL Full Ring: QTo in BB vs min raise. Semi bluff on turn the right move? Quote
05-01-2016 , 12:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabba021
Personally I'm folding pre. You've got the 2nd Jesus seat on him so just play heaps of hands v him ip. There's no shame in folding in the blinds.

If you forced me to call, I would c/c every street. Crai works here v other opponents but you are turning your hand into a bluff.
Never ever fold pre here. You are getting ridiculous odds - if you fold this hnd then you're folding way too much in the blinds. C/c every street is also a losing play.

OP, don't always take trust every single piece of advice you are given on this forum. Sometimes people give good advice but other times the advice is terrible. It can be difficult sometimes to filter out the good from the bad, so just be aware of it. Training sites, trusted youtube content, and books from established poker authors are your most reliable sources of poker strategy content. These days, active study groups where you can socialise and interact with players of mixed experience are typically better for analysing hand histories than trusting information that anyone can give you on a giant forum like this one. That's not to say this site is useless, but just bear in mind that it is unwise to take everyone by their word on this site.
NL Full Ring: QTo in BB vs min raise. Semi bluff on turn the right move? Quote
05-01-2016 , 06:30 AM
What line would you take sir?

You are playing OOP v an aggrodonk w a mediocre hand, hence I would fold pre and play many hands ip. Ok I missed that he only minraised but folding here is not bad. 4.5:1 is great if the game stops there.
NL Full Ring: QTo in BB vs min raise. Semi bluff on turn the right move? Quote
05-01-2016 , 07:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabba021
What line would you take sir?

You are playing OOP v an aggrodonk w a mediocre hand, hence I would fold pre and play many hands ip. Ok I missed that he only minraised but folding here is not bad. 4.5:1 is great if the game stops there.
I understand your reasoning but I don't agree at all and I'll explain why. I've done a lot of work on blind defense and a lot of beginners or inexperienced players overfold their blinds quite a lot - mainly because of over-applying very general advice such as "fold a lot out of position". So they end up folding 80% (or even 90%) to a blind steal when in the big blind. However, this equates to overfolding your range quite considerably and is easy to exploit as people can oversteal your blinds easily and see you as dead money.

As a result, you are forced to defend hands which might not necessarily be +EV, but are less -EV than folding. Remember every time you fold a hand in the big blind costs you 1bb. That's a loss rate of -100bb/100. So anything better than that means the hand is worth playing. Over time, optimal defense ranges can be constructed vs steals based on these factors I've mentioned. Extensive analysis has been done not just by me but by other 50nl+ regs as well as coaches and training sites, to produce these defense ranges. QTo fits firmly into the "call" range even vs a 3bb button open when defending in the big blind. So vs a 2bb open, it's not even close - very easy call getting those odds. Another reason why this is an even easier call is the fact we're playing against a bad player - bad players are more prone to making mistakes, which means it's easier to exploit them postflop, hence increasing the profitability of the call.

As Useful_Idiot agrees, c/c every street is not good. I understand we're up against an aggro fish, but calling down super light is not how you beat these players. On this particular board texture, a ten is unlikely to be good even vs this player type, and it's not worth calling multiple bets just to find out. It's better to just wait for a reasonable hand and then let them spew chips your way.
NL Full Ring: QTo in BB vs min raise. Semi bluff on turn the right move? Quote
05-01-2016 , 10:50 AM
Thank you for explaining. I understand perfectly; am rusty. My c/c comment was silly looking again, you're right.

Although I would say that if you suck playing oop (I clearly do?) folding isn't so bad. You will end up bleeding money if you don't have a good post flop game - which in my opinion is reasonable to expect at 2nl.
NL Full Ring: QTo in BB vs min raise. Semi bluff on turn the right move? Quote

      
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