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Micro Stakes Full Ring Discussion of up to .25/.50 online no-limit pot-limit Texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

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Old 08-03-2009, 09:03 AM   #1
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$25NL: Let's talk about floating

Using the below hand as an example:
  1. Can we float here?
  2. What should we be thinking about if we float?
  3. Is it wrong to float such a ragged board to C/F turn?
  4. Is floated always OOP or IP?

Let my bring some general comments to the above questions and the below hand. In this spot I felt C/F was wrong, but C/R was only going to be called by a hand that beat me. All low PP's are folding.

Villian is a 19/12/6 over 100.

Poker Stars $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $19.55
UTG+1: $31.30
MP1: $29.15
MP2: $28.60
CO: $30.60
BTN: $21.10
Hero (SB): $26.70
BB: $24.65

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is SB with 9 9
4 folds, CO raises to $1, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.90, 1 fold

Flop: ($2.25) 7 2 A (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $1.25, Hero ???

Last edited by Moya; 08-03-2009 at 09:11 AM.
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Old 08-03-2009, 09:13 AM   #2
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Re: $25NL: Let's talk about floating

Floating is best done in position, when the villains range hasn't hit the board that well.
It is cheaper than raising the flop, as you plan to take it away from them when they check the turn.

In this case, i think i would fold the flop. You may be ahead of him here, but your hand is too hard to play profitably oop on this board without turning it into a bluff
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Old 08-03-2009, 09:18 AM   #3
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Re: $25NL: Let's talk about floating

OP is asking about floating, but what about donking here? Smaller PP will call, you'll protect against big overs KQ and he can't Cbet you out like he will with most of his raising range. Can we donk here if villian steals alot and is Cbet% is high? Like Eggpie says, the turn and river are going to be very difficult to play no matter what though.
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Old 08-03-2009, 09:45 AM   #4
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Re: $25NL: Let's talk about floating

Floating is much easier to do in position and in a lot of cases is dependant on villain then checking the turn (unless you want to float two streets).

What is villains cbet stats?

A call and donk might be a good play here.
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Old 08-03-2009, 09:57 AM   #5
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Re: $25NL: Let's talk about floating

3 bet pre anyone?
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Old 08-03-2009, 09:57 AM   #6
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Re: $25NL: Let's talk about floating

Against a pf raise from the CO, raising pf is far better than calling and floating oop.
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Old 08-03-2009, 10:40 AM   #7
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Re: $25NL: Let's talk about floating

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Originally Posted by venice10 View Post
Against a pf raise from the CO, raising pf is far better than calling and floating oop.
I wouldn't be so quick to say that. I don't personally like floating oop, but I don't think you can immediately 3b without considering how our villain reacts. If villain is calling a wide range of his CO raising range, then we can do this for value. Otherwise, we can certainly consider calling and playing flops.

Personally, I go for the c/raise or even donking here. We are looking to extract maximum value, but maximum value in this case is just picking up money here before we run into tougher spots on the turn and river OOP. Cbets with air will fold, perhaps 88-KK folds here as well, and we can just give up here if we get played back at (unless villain is an aggrotard, which it appears he is not in this case)
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Old 08-03-2009, 12:11 PM   #8
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Re: $25NL: Let's talk about floating

I wrote a list of "10 Poker Commandments" that I keep by my computer.

Observe commandment 8:

8) Thou shalt not float flops OOP with underpairs
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Old 08-03-2009, 12:41 PM   #9
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Re: $25NL: Let's talk about floating

this is an easy float oop. the board is super dry. call now. watch him checkback the turn. bet 3/4 pot on the river. if he knows to fold.

otherwise call. check turn. check river and go to showdown!
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Old 08-03-2009, 12:50 PM   #10
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Re: $25NL: Let's talk about floating

Quote:
Originally Posted by fnjay View Post
3 bet pre anyone?
first thing i thought of when i read the hand...
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Old 08-03-2009, 12:54 PM   #11
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Re: $25NL: Let's talk about floating

No, we shouldn't float, but we can consider calling for value... do you see the difference?

3b pre is going to polarize him to a range that has strong equity against 99
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Old 08-03-2009, 12:55 PM   #12
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Re: $25NL: Let's talk about floating

Are you floating here because you think your hand might be good or because you want to take the pot away from him on a later street?

edit: zeth beat me to it.
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Old 08-03-2009, 01:05 PM   #13
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Re: $25NL: Let's talk about floating

seems to me against certain villains one can vfloat OOP playing a pot control line looking to get to SD cheaply...

as for the 3b line, what does villain range us on our 3b%'s and what is villains FT3b%? if it's in the 70%+ often i'll 3b ATC and stab the flop if called, dependent upon his FCB%. 3 betting out of the blinds here is almost akin to "punishing a limper" with an ISO raise in LP then firing the flop... and with a narrow 3bet range you most certainly turn your hand face up a lot of the times.

i don't believe polarizing his range is that bad of a thing if he'll fold a significant amount of the time preflop or post flop... plus if rags flop, you're wider 3b range can hit hard and since villain is "polarized" he plays his hand face up.

as played, i'd call one street for sure to see what he does on the turn...
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Old 08-03-2009, 01:24 PM   #14
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Re: $25NL: Let's talk about floating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeth View Post
No, we shouldn't float, but we can consider calling for value... do you see the difference?
+1
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Old 08-03-2009, 02:11 PM   #15
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Re: $25NL: Let's talk about floating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeth View Post
No, we shouldn't float, but we can consider calling for value... do you see the difference?
We C/C flop for value and the turn is 8 and villain fires $3.75. Do we then fold?
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