This my pretty horrible stats and graph of 7k hands last month







so yea...advice appreciated plz

lol, I looked at your stats and thought, "jesus, this guy plays like he is playing 6 max." Then I looked over at the left most column and saw the reason they look like 6 max stats.

This is the full ring forum, but I will take a shot at your stats.

They actually look pretty good. IF this small sample is fairly representative of your play, then you might try tightening up a bit, especially in EP (ship your by position stats in a follow up post) to maybe 22/19 or so, but i honestly do not think that is your problem.

I think your problem is your hand/opponent reading skills. the reason i think this is because your W$@SD stat is at 42%. This is too low by a significant margin, UNLESS you are winning a huge amount in non-showdown pots (which you clearly are not). The first step you need to take is to filter for hands that went to showdown and lost and look through all of them carefully. Try to identify which hands you pushed too far--did you get to showdown because you were trying to bet a villain off his hand knowing you were behind, or did your loss at showdown surprise you? Depending on your answer and the proportions of hands that fit into these categories, you are either not hand reading correctly or not reading your opponent correctly. So you are either misjudging your hand strength or your opponent's willingness to fold to continued aggression. I can't tell from your stats which it is, and, truthfully, in 6 max, you would expect to make both sorts of mistakes on a fairly regular basis. But you will need to cut down the frequency of these mistakes to start winning.

Minor leak: defend your SB more often.

Your check/raised the flop is insanely high--I assume you are bluffing a huge amount in this way. If so, you are over-relying on a very expensive type of bluff. This is bloating the size of the average pot that you lose. You will need to compare the size of the pots you lose to the size of the pots you win, and your success rate, to determine whether this is a profitable strategy. I would be amazed if it is.

Post your position stats and i may be able to add some thoughts.

As you can see, I am having trouble being a consistent winning player lately...

My main problem is with playing from the blinds.
Here are the graphs, first is normal graph, and second is without the blinds.







Like wow... Some stats also:

Flop Cbet: 83.6%
SB defend steal: 16%
SB reraise steal: 4.1%
BB defend steal: 18.5%
BB reraise steal: 3.7%

Should those number be a lot higher?

Thanks to anyone who takes time to answer

Autist, did you move up stakes at around 50,000 hands? Did you bump up the number of tables you play? That is a huge change in your non-SD winnings at that point of the graph. You played almost 50,000 hands break even in non-sd pots, which is a very good performance, and then started tailing off. It seems obvious that something changed.

If you did not move up to tougher stakes, or add more tables, then you should try to figure out what you were doing differently earlier and go back to it. If you made either of these changes at around hand 50,000, it is probably the explanation; all of the leaks I have described below are magnified by moving up or playing too many tables.

The steadily declining non-sd line is an indicator of "weak-tight" play. Typically, it is characterized by 4 leaks, all of which you will need to address:

1. Putting too much money in when behind, usually by calling a villain's bet. Use your tracking software to filter for hands that you lost that DID NOT go to showdown. check to see if you could have/should have folded earlier in the hand. If you are floating a lot of flops only to fold to a turn bet, that is going to start to add up. You will just have to go through the hands and determine whether a raise or a fold or getting to showdown was a better play in each hand/type of situation.

2. Not firing at good flops. It is easy to hit the "check," button when you are in a blind and the flop misses you (especially when mass multi-tabling). But you have to adopt the mentality that has you examining the flop to see if it probably hit your opponents, and then you fire away with any pair or draw at all when you think the flop missed them. These "orphan pots," go a long way toward reducing your losses from the blinds.

3. Letting your opponent get to showdown second best too often. This is really a failure to extract maximum value. The typical pot control line--bet flop, check turn, bet river ensures that a lot of the good hands you have become showdown winnings, rather than non-showdown winnings, as you have made showdown reasonably priced for the villain. This is a fine line sometimes. But the line bet flop, bet turn usually induces more folds because it is so much stronger than the pot control line. If you have a steadily declining non-sd line, it probably indicates that your default betting line is bet flop, check turn with weak hands you play in the blinds. Similarly, checking behind on the river with the best hand is a frequent failure to extract maximum value, and it also moves into the showdown winnings columns a fair number of pots that the villain would have folded to a river bet and would have become non-showdown winnings that way.

IMPORTANT NOTE:We don't care about whether a win is a SD or a non-SD win, except for the fact that if we are in position and checking behind too much (failing to extract max value), one of the ways we can find this out is by examining the slope of our non-SD line. Like I said in the OP, we don't care about our stats being pretty, or "correct," we only care about them because they tell us what is wrong with our play.

Because your problem is mainly in the blinds, you should take a look at the hands where you fire at a small pot in the blinds and then check the turn. What was the result of the hand? maybe a second bet could have taken it down? Or maybe you won the hand at showdown? anyway, consider firing more turns where it seems unlikely that the villain has anything. Don't automatically give up on a pot just because the villain called your flop bet. Don't automatically go to a pot control line just because the villain hangs around.

4. Not defending enough. this is an easy concept to grasp, but so, so hard to implement. If you are in the blinds and the villain on the button has an attempt to steal % in the 30s, you KNOW he is often raising you with almost trash. So why are you folding your decent hands? Sure, his position makes up for a lot, but you have three responses to his positional advantage. 1. Seize the initiative by 3 betting (your 3 bet stats looked fine, imo) 2. call with hands that are, on average, a little better than the hands he is raising with and 3. you have superior hand reading skills, and you will play back at him aggressively on flops that missed his range, or hands that look like they hit yours, or flops where he just can't take a lot of pressure. Your defense stats look pretty appropriate, so you ought to go through those hands and see whether you are winning or losing in those hands. It seems pretty likely that you are playing too much "fit or fold," when you defend.

Your graphs actually look pretty good. Most TAg players lose money in non-SD pots (including the blinds) and win in non-SD pots when the blinds are excluded. So your graph is pretty normal. But if you focus on identifying any of these leaks you might have in the blinds, you ought to be able to reduce the downward slope.

Good luck.

How do i insert images from my harddrive???

mpethybridge you seem to be able to provide a lot of help on 2+2. been playing online for a long time. here's some recent stats at $50NL FR. can you help with interpreting this graph if i am playing alright overall and just have a lull run or something jumps out at you? i am used to PT2 with their graphing and not the this PT3 graphing so can't tell if i am doing ok or not

111,165 hands
BB/100 0.20
VP$IP 12.31
PFR 6.62
3bet 1.52
Att to Steal 21.66
Flop AF 2.50
CBet F 54.36

any help is appreciated, thanks

- RH -

I would like some comments on this stats. Breakeven the last 10k hands, due to a lot of bad beats and bad calls from my side. But overall what do u think? /Thomas

(Swedish currensy)

I would like some comments on this stats. The last 10k hands i had lots of bad beats, and I also made some very bad calls (calling down a loose agg with only TPTK and so on).

I need to nip this trend in the bud: people need to stop posting graphs without PT3 stats. To give you a fair analysis, we need to see your summary page stats and your position stats. Interpreting a graph is a very, very, poor substitute.

RH

Did you hack into my computer and grab my 2007 database? Because your graph looks a lot like mine did for that period.

Look, your graph is easy to interpret; so easy that I am a little suspicious, tbh. I am going to assume this is not the level it appears to be.

This graph is almost a perfect example of why playing "weak-tight" is, at best, a very modest winning style for most players. Your non-show down losses are almost a perfect mirror image of your show down winnings. Basically, what has happened is that you have lost almost exactly as much money in non-show down pots as you have won at showdown.

Stated this way, it makes the leak obvious--lose less in non-showdown pots.

Without seeing all of your stats, all I can say for sure is that you are losing way too much in non-SD pots, probably in the blinds. Read my post to Autist 2 or 3 posts up--it all applies to you, too.

your preflop stats are 12/6. This probably means you have a fifth leak--you are losing a small amount by either limping or calling raises a bit too much. But I don't have the stats I need to verify this or figure out what you are doing.

Also, your ATS is a bit too low--try to get it up above 25%; actually, as high as you can get it is better--the really aggressive TAgs are all above 30% Stealing--a successful steal--reduces the downward angle of your non-SD slope 1.5 big blinds at a time--it is vitally important in the long term, even though a lot of the time the 1.5 bb you win on a steal is gone from your stack the next time you post the blinds.

Seriously, read the post I did for Autist--you HAVE TO have all 4 of those leaks for your graph to look like this.

Hi, Im new to this forum. From what I can see (quick look) on your stats is that you should be raising more hands. If you have a vpip of 12%, you should be raising about 9-10%.

mpeth i don't ever appreciate being called a liar (when you questioned the level i stated) so even though you quickly replied i felt the need to show you proof. hopefully these screenshots give you more info to be able to help me more. i have played you before and a lot of our stats are very similar.

scorpio i have been playing a long time and a TON of hands online. my cash game is much better than it was and i still have lots of improvements to make but i don't see how in the world with my style at full ring i could even stomach raising enough to get this to 10%. in order to get this that high i feel like i would have to be 4 betting in spots i shouldn't be or 3 betting weak hands. i just don't see how i could easily get this up from 6-double digit PFR. i know from reading 2+2 that everyone will say i am nit tight but i don't understand the people that have VPIPs of 18% and are profitable long term. i just can't make myself play that way and when i have tried in the past it's never been profitable.

When you raise. you raise more in position with few limpers before you. You seize the initiative and can very often take it down with a cbet on the flopp. Look at my stats. /Thomas

more shenanigans? or did Starbucks slip a paranoia pill into my coffee today?

<sigh>

Well, you wanted comments, so here goes: These stats seem like the stats of a person who has mastered playing a very nitty style at these stakes. I would be in awe of the non-blind stats here if I had confidence they were legit.

The blind losses are, in a vacuum, too high, but it clearly is not keeping the hero from crushing these games in this somewhat too-small-to-draw-firm-conclusions-from sample.

anything I could say other than lose less in the blinds would be an attempt to change the style of player from rock to Tag; but if you have a 14ptbb/100 winrate as a rock, why change?

Lose less in the blinds, enjoy the extra ptbb/100 or so.

PM me who you really are, please.

RH - When Mpethy says he is going to assume this is 'not the level it appears to be,' he is saying that he will take your post at face value. There's nothing offensive here. It's just that your post is so straightforward that it seems maybe you're having fun at his expense. He's giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you're being earnest. Also, this reply makes me even more suspicious... If this is a level it's nicely done.


Just try stealing a lot more from late position. That's a great place to add more PFR. When you're comfortable with that maybe start finding spots to 3-bet a little light from late position, but that's really not necessary.

These last two posts both seemed very strange. I apologize for offending you. I certainly did not mean to imply that you were lying; the worst I suspected was an elaborate hoax.

You are right--our stats and win rates are very similar--that was the basis for the sarcastic "did you hack my DB" line.

Edit: RH, when i quote your post I can see the image tags for the screen shots, but I can't see the screen shots in your post itself. I don't know what's going on there. Can you repost them?

my screenshots have disappeared, let's try this again








mpeth you didn't seen to really have anything new to add, i was hoping for more...

thanks

thanks for all the posts guys but i am afraid nothing here is helpful. i am told to raise more late with limpers or no one in the pot and i do that all the time. you guys think i am playing a joke but i am completely legit and asking for help. seems a lot of the time on 2+2 people are looking to just insult the newbies on these forums. i got the same kind of feedback when i asked questions about PLO and L in the past and it's been a negative experience here. i am legitimately looking for advice and it seems like you guys don't think i am for real and it's a "hoax".

it's not.

thanks

one more try to get images to show up

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/rockholly/Poker/photo#5237808100456509634"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/rockholly/SLBut11fsMI/AAAAAAAAAMI/I1kDlLOBWtc/s144/mpeth1.png" /></a>

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/rockholly/Poker/photo#5237808102533638930"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/rockholly/SLBut9kuKxI/AAAAAAAAAMQ/vJzOdbuzDqk/s144/mpeth2.png" /></a>

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/rockholly/Poker/photo#5237808101510027890"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/rockholly/SLBut5wrGnI/AAAAAAAAAMY/o7U9OrbVlMc/s144/mpeth3.jpg" /></a>

RH, I hear you. I struggle with amping up the aggression, too.

But listen: Your preflop stats are 12/6. This means that 50% of the pots that you play, you are surrendering the initiative. Either you are limping, or you are calling. Either action preflop is a sign of WEAKNESS. So your opponents assume from the beginning of the hand that you will not be a factor unless you hit a monster, which is extremely rare.

I have been getting slaughtered when I amp up my aggression. I assume this is the learning curve at work. But, for example, my blind loss rate has increased from 0.33ptbb/orbit to to 0.45ptbb/orbit since I started 3 betting and defending in the blinds.

This doesn't mean the strategy is a bad one--it means my execution has been faulty, and once I figure out the right spots, etc. etc., I will begin to reap the rewards. You need to have some patience with new ideas and expect to lose with them at first (I moved back down to $50 to experiment with this) until you figure it out.

Take a new idea, implement it for a session, and then go back to your tracking software and study the hands you played using the new idea. See where you went wrong, where it worked, and look for patterns.

Well its not dollars. Its swedish currency. (1 dollar = 6,6 swedish krona). Any way, I'm just asking for advise. My intensions is honest. I dont know what is good or what's not. I have played poker for about 2 years. In the beginning 5 max and SNG's. But found out that FR whas my game.
I have read a lot of poker magazines and articles. But whats really made me a winning player (maybe?) was to read the beginning of this thread. Trying to copy the stats from the winning players. I have also worked a lot with BR management. Stop playing for the day when loosing max 3 buyins (100 bb per buyin). Having minimum 30 buyins for the next level to step up. And last but not least, thinking about playing my A game everytime. Not playing tierd and out of focus. I am always playing five tables (max for my poker client). /Thomas

ok, I cut and pasted these urls into my browser and saw your album. your leaks look pretty straight forward. give me 10-15 minutes to type it up.

Your winrate is 14 ptbb/100. This is REALLY GOOD.

OK, the $ sign threw me off.

I could offer you a lot of advice on how to open up and play more aggressively, but I don't know if it would improve your winrate. The only real leak I saw was that you are not defending your blinds nearly enough. study your blind play. PM me if you want to discuss in detail how you should go about defending.

Truthfully, though, your winrate is impressive and I would be very reluctant to mess with your non-blinds play.

and evidently starbucks did slip me a paranoia pill today, so my sincere apology to you and RockHolly both.

Whops wrong quote, was ment for mpethybridge.

Thank you! I will look in to that blind thing.