I. Introduction
When examining our range postflop, we can categorize our hand based on strength. Our strongest holdings, value hands, are easy to play. Do anything you can to win the most money and never fold. Our worst hands are equally easy. Fold most of the time, occasionally bluff. As we move into the middle of our range, things start to become a little more difficult. These are the threads we’re used to seeing in strategy threads: should I fold my TPTK, can I call his turn bet, or should I bet/fold or check/call this river?



We can think of the middle of our range then as Showdown Value Hands (SDV). With this range of holdings, there is a decent enough chance that our hand will be best when turned face up, yet we will be end up value towning ourselves by betting or raising. Our goal then is to get to showdown as cheap as possible and try to win with the best hand. In this COTW we will examine some examples of SDV hands, followed by some caveats and warnings.



II. Examples

A. Standard SDV hand

Villain is a 19/0 over 26 hands. Hero steals Q9o to play a pot IP vs a fish.



SB ($100.50)
BB ($91.65)
UTG ($98.50)
MP1 ($107.70)
MP2 ($100)
CO ($114.65)
Hero (Button) ($101)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9, Q
4 folds, Hero bets $3, 1 fold, BB calls $2

Flop: ($6.50) J, A, 3 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $4, BB calls $4

Turn: ($14.50) 9 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

River: ($14.50) 3 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Total pot: $14.50 | Rake: $0.70

Results:
Hero had 9, Q (two pair, nines and threes).
BB had Q, K (one pair, threes).
Outcome: Hero won $13.80



After we open, the board is very dry and scary so we make a standard continuation bet, and get flatted by the villain. We turn a pair, which gives us a small amount of SDV since we now beat smaller pocket pairs, and hands like KT or KQ that our loose passive villain flatted on the flop. Clearly value betting our pair of nines at this point would be suicide- our opponent calls his aces and good jacks and folds everything worse. Instead, we check back our pair and flip the best hand face up at showdown.


B. Hero has a strong hand
Sometimes we make a hand that looks deceptively strong. In these spots, our instinct is to bet because of our OMG strong hand. Yet in reality, our villain has very little worse that can call.

This hand was the very first hand of my session, so no HUD yet. I did not have the villain marked (I mark all regs and fish I see) which does tell me a small amount, but I’m still mostly in the dark.



UTG ($102.45)
Button ($51.80)
SB ($111.40)
Hero (BB) ($100)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K, 3
2 folds, SB calls $0.50, Hero checks

Flop: ($2) 7, K, K (2 players)
SB bets $2, Hero calls $2

Turn: ($6) 4 (2 players)
SB bets $6, Hero calls $6

River: ($18) 6 (2 players)
SB bets $18, Hero calls $18

Total pot: $54 | Rake: $2

Results:
SB had Q, Q (two pair, Kings and Queens).
Hero had K, 3 (three of a kind, Kings).
Outcome: Hero won $52



In this hand, hero flops trip kings blind versus blind, which may as well be the nuts. Yet we are faced with three pot sized bets from our villain after he limps pre. Villains bets are so polarizing in this spot. He either has the case king, or he has a complete spaz. Any king other than K2 is better than our hand, so we just have to call down with our super strong hand. If we raise, villain just folds his bluffs and calls with his better kings. It’s very possible that this hand plays differently vs. a villain we have reads or stats on, but I think against an unknown calling down here is OK.




C. Ace high as SDV

Sometimes hands as weak as ace or king high can have showdown value. It’s important get a good idea of villains range, to determine if getting to showdown or trying to bluff is better.

The villain in the following hand is a 15/11 reg. He 3 bets his big blind versus steal 6% of the time.



MP3 ($63.55)
CO ($103.50)
Hero (Button) ($102.70)
SB ($72.30)
BB ($121.25)
UTG ($114.55)
UTG+1 ($110.45)
MP1 ($106)
MP2 ($98.90)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K, A
6 folds, Hero bets $3, 1 fold, BB raises to $11, Hero calls $8

Flop: ($22.50) 8, 4, J (2 players)
BB bets $14.50, Hero calls $14.50

Turn: ($51.50) 4 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

River: ($51.50) 2 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Total pot: $51.50 | Rake: $2.55

Results:
Hero had K, A (one pair, fours).
BB had 7, 6 (one pair, fours).
Outcome: Hero won $48.95




Villains range for 3bing is something like medium and high pocket pairs, AJ+, and some smaller Ax and Kx bluffs. His cbet on the flop is standard, so we call to take away the pot on later streets. When villain checks the turn to us though, I had to catch myself just in time from bluffing him out of the pot. His turn check means he either has a thinner value hand, or has air he is planning on check folding. We beat a significant portion of his range by checking and can never get value from betting. Checking back the turn and river lets us win by beating the Ax and Kx in his range, and avoids us value towning ourselves vs his stronger holdings.





III. Warnings
It is important to realize that not every middle of the road hand equals showdown value. Sometimes our hand appears to have SDV yet in reality beats little to no part of our opponents range. Other times, the opposite is true. We miss thin value when we have a holding that beats enough of our opponents range.



A. Assuming You Have SDV

Villain is a 16/11 crushing reg.


Full Tilt Pot-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) -


UTG ($171.35)
UTG+1 ($40.85)
MP1 ($229.95)
Hero (MP2) ($102.70)
CO ($106.70)
Button ($143.50)
SB ($147.85)
BB ($178)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 2, 2
2 folds, MP1 bets $3.50, Hero calls $3.50, 4 folds

Flop: ($8.50) 10, 9, 8 (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($8.50) 9 (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero checks

River: ($8.50) K (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero checks

Total pot: $8.50 | Rake: $0.40

Results:
MP1 had 6, 6 (two pair, nines and sixes).
Hero had 2, 2 (two pair, nines and twos).
Outcome: MP1 won $8.10




We flat pre to set mine and play a pot in position. When our opponent checks to us, he almost never has a piece of that board, so we can put him on something like 22-66, and AK. Any other part of his preflop range has a pair or draw that would continuation bet. We continue to check back our small PP with SDV to avoid value towning ourselves on this wet board. Yet by the river, we beat none of the range that we previously defined. Our hand looks like it has SDV, being a pair on a hand that has checked through three streets, but beats nothing in our opponents range. At this point, bluffing the river is foolish, because it won’t get any respect. Yet if we had realized our hand strength earlier in the hand we could have planned better.



B. Missing Thin Value
If there is one fallacy with SDV worth remembering, it is to ALWAYS remember to look for thin value. We don’t want to get into bad habits of checking back the best hand and constantly lose value that could be helping our WR.

Our villain is an agro reg at FR, who usually runs around 20/18. We are playing 3H with a fish for about 100 hands now, and he has been running somewhere around 30/25 with a ridiculous 30% 3b.



SB ($104.50)
BB ($65.65)
Hero (Button) ($100)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J, K
Hero bets $3, SB raises to $11, 1 fold, Hero calls $8

Flop: ($23) A, K, 7 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($23) 5 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: ($23) 10 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Total pot: $23 | Rake: $1

Results:
Hero had J, K (one pair, Kings).
SB had 8, 8 (one pair, eights).
Outcome: Hero won $22



I think defending with KJo in position vs my opponents wide three betting range is going to be fine in this spot. His range is going to be something like Ax, Kx, all PPs, any two broadways, etc. We flop second pair, and our opponent never bets on such an obvious board for him to bet on. In my opinion, he is thinking the same thing as me- SDV. By the time it gets to the river, I think it is clear that we have the best hand. We should be looking to bet and collect some value from the hands that can call (Kx). Instead we foolishly check back the best hand and miss value. FWIW, looking at this hand now, it doesn’t even seem to thin on the river. Pretty fat imo.





tl;dr Cliff Notes
-Showdown value is the part of our range that is likely the best hand yet can’t get value
-Check or call with hands that have a good chance of being the best at showdown
-Don’t bet or raise when only better can call and worse will fold.
-Sometimes ace high has showdown value. Other times pairs or better won’t.
-Avoiding missing value bets with hands just because they have SDV


Feel free to post examples and discuss those posted.

first!

2nd

Hand 1 is probably not a c-bet as I doubt fish folds too often here on this AJx board. (I know this derails from sdv, but you know) - turn onward is fine.

Hand 2 is nh imo (given 50nl and unknown)

Hand 3 is a flop bluff (as we can get a large % of his checking range to c/f here) and we don't actually have much (if any) sdv

Hand 4 is a fat river value bet as he rarely has Ax here (as he himself should be going for thin value otr here), maybe make it $8.30 or so imo.

third

nice article. Really helpful thanks a lot!

just did a quick skim...but good job gadol =)

great read thanks

Nice post. Thanks.

nice one gadol

Now to train myself to always look for thin value on the river

I needed this, great post!

Question about SDV. If flop/turn misses both, does it not usually go to whoever buys the pot first? So even though no one is calling with worse, isn't it sometimes better to take it down before villain does?

nice post, thanks

Ill try and post a HH later when i've got more time but im interested to see your view on ranges when for instance we flat a mp raise in c/o with KQs
Flop comes qxx, villain cbets - we call, turn blank - villain checks - we check back, then 2scenario's on river. One is that the A comes and villain bets so we have a decision here which is more villain dependant I suppose that he feels he can represent the A everytime, and second that the river bricks and villain bets out.

in both scenario's we have SDV but i'm not sure how to think about this situation. Ofc its villain dependant like everything in poker but I think its a pretty common scenario that is worth looking and could make a good impact on our WR's

You are allowed to call bluffy looking bets with a hand that has thin sdv.

Anyway good OP. I'm glad you touched on sdv vs thin value bets as I think a huge leak of many micro fr regs is to overuse sdv and constantly miss streets of value.

+1 this is definitely a leak of mine.

Nice post, sir.

This could turn into one of the best COTW's ever if we can get a good debate going over SDV against different villan types vs. thin value.

On my cell phone so I will post better responses later but the conflict between SDV and thin value is an interesting spot. I find that as I become more experience and better at poker, I look for SDV less and look fr thin value or places to turn my hand
into a bluff more. Looking through my database, I actually had a tough time finding hands that illustrated my points because of this.

In general, the more likely our opponent is to kill with worse, the more likely we should be to bet for thin value. Suppose in my Q9 example that instead or the turn being a 9, it was a Q. Instead of checking back the river, I now make a value bet to get calls from Jx even though I know I get shown Ax a lot. My opponent is simply fishy enough that I think I can get some thin value here.

On the other hand, if you look at my ace king hand and make my opponent more nitty, his range changes to basically AK AQ and pocket pairs. I don't think many nits are pot controling their premium pocket pairs on that turn, so he either has air or smaller pocket pairs that are just always giving up. I still beat some of his range by checking, but if I bet he folds basically his entire range so bluffing could be more +ev now.

I'll try to post some more HHs later. Thanks for kind words all.

looks like a good post. Thanks!

Here's one of my favorite spots to go for thin value with a SDV hand.

Villain is your standard somewhat thinking TAG, we'll say 14/12 over a million hands, c-bets 50% - not c-betting like crazy but c-bet bluffing some hands also.

100bb effective
Folds to villain in the CO, raises 3x, BTN folds, Hero calls w/99 from the SB, BB folds.

Flop QQ4r
Check, check
Turn QQ44r
Check, check
River QQ442
Hero bets 1/3 to 1/2 pot, Villain calls with AK

It's whenever the board is double paired and you have a pair in the middle, you've shown no strength and Villain is either calling to chop with ace high or bluff catching with a pocket pair (sometimes better, mostly worse). But 99 to most people I think would be considered a SDV bluff catcher in this spot. I've found that most TAGs will look you up w/AK AJ if you bet small enough.

If I don't think the villan is good enough to turn their hand into a bluff, I actually 1/4ish bet the turn and river in spots like that all the time and get some rediculous calls.

^ yep

I think hand 1 is close between a cbet and not. I think i get folds enough for it to be OK but its definitly close.

Agree with hand 4 (you said 3, assume you mean the 22 hand) being a flop bluff always.

Hand 4 is definitely super fat value. I realized it while typing how awful it was.

I was looking through all these hands and i realized very few of them were played perfectly. Even hand 2, which you said nh on, i had a debate with a friend about before posting about whether or not more value could be had. But they highlighted the points I wanted to make about SDV so I thought they were good for discussion.

So this is yes and no IMO. Generally, when you have air, its a good time to make a bet for this reason. Yet when you have a pair or even ace high, and think you are already ahead of some of villains range, it can be worth checking it down for SDV. This is even more true when we are IN POSITION because we can more strongly control our own fate of getting to showdown.

Its also important to realize you can't just call every cb and then bet the turn when checked to. Very quickly breathing opponents will realize whats going on and adjust to you. So then you need a range of hands to stab the turn with, which can be air, thin value, and fat value hands. Somewhere in between air and thin value you will still always have a range, no matter how slim, where its best to just get to showdown without value betting or bluffing.

This depends, as everything does in poker. In the games I have played recently (50nl and 100nl) its standard for people to bluff turn and river scare cards with the ace. Thus its also standard to call down on them. This actually relates back to last weeks COTW on "Getting diamonds from Charcoal" where we should be trying to figure out if our opponent understands concepts like these.

Brick rivers are more difficult IMO. Usually I call because i think its tough for my opponent to put me on such a strong hand after I check back the turn, so its a call because i beat enough of his thin value range, plus his bluffs. Sometimes you get super strong hands that went for a bet check bet value line, but others you are indeed shown thin value and bluffs.

Betting turn in these spots is cool too, especially on the board you gave because its a good spot to merge your own range. But i agree, good spot for value.

thanks Gad! Great Post and good info.

Got a question and discussion point on hand 1 of your COTW (the one where we hold Q9o on a AJ39r board). I was wondering if really do have SDV in this spot against a lot of opponents. Sure against the whale and the calling station, I would say SDV since there are a lot of PP and even some KQ in there. But, I think even against a lot of passive fish and opponents, we don't have SDV given the board texture. Given that there are almost no draws on the board, the calling range of a lot of opponents will be Ax or Jx. And against a weak tight opponent, could bluffing be better on turn?

The strength of our range changes based on our opponents range (ldo). For example. Consider we have the same holding (Q9o) and our opponent called our cb. We are vs a 9/7 nit, or a passive fish:

vs nit:
Value: 2p+, TPTK, TPGK for thin value
SDV: Ax, maybe KJ or QJ
Air/bluffs: Jx, 9x, anything else

I think vs the nit its worth considering betting the turn because we are never ahead with Q9o, his range is never super strong (he didnt 3b pre), and we have outs to improve over Ax and Jx.

OTOH, vs the passive fish:
Value: 2p+, TPTK, TPGK, Ax, KJ, QJ
SDV: Jx, 9x, KQ, KT
Air: everything else.

Since our opponents range is now even weaker, our worse hands pick up SDV. We can bet more thinly for value, and expect to have the best hand at showdown with a wider variety of holdings.


This spot was tough. Main reason I didn't consider raising was because I didn't want to raise/fold on the river (I have SDV!) Also, since ive never seen this player before, I don't think i need to be too worried about history or him making a note on me that affects a long term dynamic with him. Also, theres no clear second best hands for him to call with (except QQ apparently, which I agree I missed value from).

Note i also misplayed the hand by not raising pre. But i was just getting my session going and not paying enough attention i guess.