These two hands were 20 minutes apart.

partypoker, Hold'em No Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 5 players
Hand delivered by Upswing Poker

UTG (Hero): $10.00 (100 bb)
CO: $10.00 (100 bb)
BU: $29.56 (296 bb)
SB: $10.89 (109 bb)
BB: $13.49 (135 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero is UTG with A♣ A♦
Hero raises to $0.35, 1 fold, BTN calls $0.35, SB calls $0.30, 1 fold

Flop: ($1.15) 8♥ 6♣ 9♠ (3 players)
SB bets $0.51, Hero raises to $1.60, BU folds, SB raises to $10.54 (all-in), Hero calls $8.05 (all-in)

Turn: ($20.45) 6♠ (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($20.45) 2♦ (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $20.45 (Rake: $1)

Showdown:
SB shows 5♠ 7♠ (a straight, Five to Nine)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 21%, Flop: 96%, Turn: 91%, River: 100%)

UTG (Hero) shows A♣ A♦ (two pair, Aces and Sixes)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 79%, Flop: 4%, Turn: 9%, River: 0%)

SB wins $19.45




partypoker, Hold'em No Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 6 players
Hand delivered by Upswing Poker

UTG: $10.38 (104 bb)
MP: $19.62 (196 bb)
CO: $23.74 (237 bb)
BU (Hero): $9.85 (99 bb)
SB: $14.83 (148 bb)
BB: $10.30 (103 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BTN with A♥ A♠
UTG raises to $0.30, 1 fold, CO 3-bets to $0.50, Hero 4-bets to $1.50, 3 players fold, CO calls $1

Flop: ($3.45) 9♥ 9♣ J♦ (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $1.70, CO calls $1.70

Turn: ($6.85) 6♦ (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $6.51, CO calls $6.51

River: ($19.87) K♠ (2 players)
CO checks, Hero checks

Total pot: $19.87 (Rake: $0.99)

Showdown:
BU (Hero) shows A♥ A♠ (two pair, Aces and Nines)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 81%, Flop: <1%, Turn: 0%, River: 0%)

CO shows 9♠ 9♦ (four of a kind, Nines)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 19%, Flop: >99%, Turn: 100%, River: 100%)

CO wins $18.88

so? you probably feel very unlucky because you loose aces twice within 20 minutes. well that happens. nothing special. i mean it sucks, but you should not expect to win or loose a hand because of what happend a couple of hands earlier...


1st hand is spew. you have really no business here raising with your hand.
sb range is much more narrow than bb and he has mostly hands like 99,88,77,66 / 98s,87s,67s ... if he is a weaker player he will have some more weaker hands but you can defintely not raise. just call and see what the turn brings.

2nd hand is unlucky. i would raise a bit larger preflop but your size is totally fine and he would call even if you raise 2$ . also we want him to call so you were just unlucky on the flop.

Thanks for your reply. No idea what you mean by "so?", I don't feel specially unlucky, since I was behind at the flop and was not outdrawn.

I didn't make the post to complaint about bad luck, but the fact that they were so close together makes me think I am playing them wrong. Hence the post.

Regarding the 1st hand, if I was not to raise how would I protect my hand against straight draws? It is a donk bet, I thought if he had a set or better he would wait for my cbet instead of the donk bet.

you dont. you cant protect your hand against draws because villain is not going to fold his draws. you think "oh villain might have 98, i need to protect my hand" 98 has 47% equity in this flop. you cant "protect" yourself against that much equity. if he has 2 pair you have 26% and if he has a set you have 10%. you should be thinking "if he is not drawing i am pretty much dead, so i just call and hope for a safe turn"

So you call a not super scary flop, he bets again on the turn, what do you do then? Just fold?

The Villain could very well be doing the same with top pair or overpair lower than ours. Do you just give them the money?

true but against those hands i dont need protection. also i dont want him to fold those hands.

ten years ago your play might have been profitable on such a flop, but today it is not. no i dont just give him my money (you did that)

depending on size i call any turn and river that doesnt connect to much with the flop.

on that turn and river i will most likely call it down.

Why is that not a scary flop?

he's doing the opposite, he's putting as little money as possible with a bad hand

So I should never bet or raise AA? And just fold in a raise in flop and turn?

An overpair in a rainbow flop with all cards below 9 is a bad hand?

I meant the pot money.

Hmm, the think is, most books I read saying be aggressive, and in the majority of the cases either raise or fold. What you say to call it to the river contradicts that. That's why I don't understand.

I am only trying to learn how to play them properly.

Let's take the example of a villain that called our raise wit suited A9 of spades.

He bets 50% of the pot at flop, since he has top pair, top kicker.

Do we call?

Pot is now $2.30 or so. Turn comes 6 of spades giving him flush draw. He likes that, so he plays it aggressively so he bets 50% of the pot, ie. $1.15.

Do we fold or call?

When he 3bet shoves all in from the BB, I don't know, you tell me.

No no. I understand that. At that point all is lost. Of course it was a huge mistake. No objection.

The discussion is about my first flop re-raise. When I raise to $1.60

You didn't reraise flop; you raised him, and no you shouldn't raise flop as Zuko said.

So what?

Go do a combinatorics exercise. Say he 3bets JJ preflop and calls 99 and TT. So 12 overpair combos that he always shoves with. How many 2 pair, straight, and set combos does he have?

Are we talking about the same hand?

What do you mean so what?

I am trying to learn

Now you're confusing me man. You said: It looks like you were talking about:

He bet, you raised, he re-raised all in, not you.

Maybe I am playing in a different network or with different players, but here what happens if I don't bet or fold my overpairs:


partypoker, Hold'em No Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 6 players
Hand delivered by Upswing Poker

UTG: $30.39 (304 bb)
MP: $38.70 (387 bb)
CO: $10.00 (100 bb)
BU: $10.00 (100 bb)
SB (Hero): $11.61 (116 bb)
BB: $11.79 (118 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero is SB with A♥ J♥
4 players fold, Hero raises to $0.35, BB calls $0.25

Flop: ($0.70) 3♥ 5♥ 6♦ (2 players)
Hero bets $0.33, BB raises to $1.66, Hero calls $1.33

Turn: ($4.02) Q♥ (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $3.82, Hero raises to $9.60 (all-in), BB calls $5.78

Villain had K5 of clubs

So in this scenario, if I had AA, should I have folded? Flop or Turn?

Or have a look at this.

I really don't understand how they way you suggest to play AA is not going to be bluffed to oblivion

partypoker, Hold'em No Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 6 players
Hand delivered by Upswing Poker

UTG: $10.00 (100 bb)
MP: $14.36 (144 bb)
CO: $10.80 (108 bb)
BU: $11.24 (112 bb)
SB: $2.41 (24 bb)
BB (Hero): $9.97 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BB with A♠ Q♣
2 players fold, CO raises to $0.30, 2 players fold, Hero calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.65) 8♥ 4♠ Q♠ (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $0.31, Hero calls $0.31

Turn: ($1.27) J♥ (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $0.60, Hero calls $0.60

River: ($2.47) T♦ (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $1.17, Hero calls $1.17

Total pot: $4.81 (Rake: $0.24)

Showdown:
CO shows 6♠ 5♣ (high card, Queen)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 37%, Flop: 19%, Turn: 9%, River: 0%)

BB (Hero) shows A♠ Q♣ (a pair of Queens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 63%, Flop: 81%, Turn: 91%, River: 100%)

BB (Hero) wins $4.57

Not sure what you’re trying to show with that last hand. Yes when we fold overpairs we’re sometimes folding the best hand. Doesn’t meant it’s not often the right play either as part of a solid basic strat, or as an exploit against population tendencies.

Nothing specific really. Trying to see if against these players is better to raise a donk bet or fold.

No question about the re-raise, we are behind for sure.

Ok. I went over your replies once again. I think I got what you are trying to say.

Thanks a lot folks. Sorry if I gave you hard time, was really confused

I think you can exploitatively raise AA against most flop donk bets, provided you are good enough to fold to further aggression (3bets or further donks). Flop donk ranges are almost always imbalanced and most overly weight towards weak made hands or draws and the weak hands will get scared on most turns and rivs. If you have seen any donk bets go to showdown and you don't have any notes it's unforgivable, most important note you can take as it is the hardest range to balance well.

Additional benefit is you get to deny button some equity and mostly play out the hand in position.

But this is a super important lesson:
Piling v big draws and hoping you hold under the guise of "protection" or "charging" is not where the profits come from in no limit holdem.

1- don't raise the donkbet

2- cooler.

In the first hand, just flat the donkbet. Villain is donking multiway on a board where he often shows up with a set (SB often has 99-66 when he calls pre). I'm calling flop and sometimes making a hero fold on the turn. I'm not stacking off, that's for sure.