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Micro-Small Stakes Full Ring Discussion of up to 1/2 online no-limit pot-limit Texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

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Old 05-22-2017, 03:18 PM   #1
Viacheslav
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5NL QQ in BB, is there fold on the turn or river?

    Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37732953

    MP1: $5 (100 bb)
    MP2: $11.48 (229.6 bb)
    MP3: $9.33 (186.6 bb)
    CO: $9.38 (187.6 bb)
    BTN: $9.16 (183.2 bb)
    SB: $8.96 (179.2 bb)
    Hero (BB): $5.01 (100.2 bb)
    UTG+2: $5.38 (107.6 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with Q Q
    3 folds, MP3 raises to $0.15, 3 folds, Hero raises to $0.46, MP3 raises to $1.26, Hero calls $0.80

    Flop: ($2.54) 2 T 4 (2 players)
    Hero checks, MP3 checks

    Turn: ($2.54) 7 (2 players)
    Hero checks, MP3 bets $1.30, Hero calls $1.30

    River: ($5.14) 9 (2 players)
    Hero checks, MP3 bets $4.93, Hero calls $2.45 and is all-in

    Spoiler:



    Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.


    Seat 4: Player4 ( $9.33 USD ) - VPIP: 26, PFR: 11, 3B: 0, AF: 0,0, Hands: 27
    Seat 8: Hero ( $5.01 USD ) - VPIP: 21, PFR: 14, 3B: 5, AF: 1,9

    Last edited by Viacheslav; 05-22-2017 at 03:24 PM.
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    Old 05-22-2017, 07:59 PM   #2
    pokerforumposter
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    Re: 5NL QQ in BB, is there fold on the turn or river?

    Everything is ok except just fold river and 3bet to 4x since you are oop. Sometimes 4bet is bluff or like AK, sometimes AA/KK, the bluffs/missed AK will usually bet 1 street but not 2. V stats indicate he is passive and not the type to 4-bet AK or less so you can just fold pre as well based on that.
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    Old 05-23-2017, 04:25 AM   #3
    krikara
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    Re: 5NL QQ in BB, is there fold on the turn or river?

    The thing is if you call turn, you have to call that river. There are no hands that he can have that are losing on the turn and beat you on the river unless he has 99.

    At some point you have to decide what his 4bet range is. If you think he's only 4betting you with AKs, KK, and AA preflop, then you should be folding it pre. If you think he has a wider range, 4betting you with hands like QQ or AQ, then yeah it's a call or raise
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    Old 05-23-2017, 02:35 PM   #4
    Darth_Maul
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    Re: 5NL QQ in BB, is there fold on the turn or river?

    Why even 3b pre? You close the betting, keep your hand disguised, and avoid facing a 4b.

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    Old 05-23-2017, 02:49 PM   #5
    Lief
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    Re: 5NL QQ in BB, is there fold on the turn or river?

    Tough spot, I'd say 3bet pre is fine but I would seriously consider a fold to that 4bet. Why? Well if BB is opening 3x raise what in the world could MP 3x that with? Unless you have great stats or reads, it's pretty clearly JJ+ AK (and I'd say typical 5NL players aren't JJ loose).

    As played, I think you're pretty priced in. Not terrible and you're definitely not the first to lose a stack this way.


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    Old 05-23-2017, 04:00 PM   #6
    krikara
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    Re: 5NL QQ in BB, is there fold on the turn or river?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Darth_Maul View Post
    Why even 3b pre? You close the betting, keep your hand disguised, and avoid facing a 4b.

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    He should be 3betting QQ preflop. He gets value for his high pair. To keep your hand disguised, you should have a good 3bet range that includes pairs and suit connectors.

    Getting raised to a 4bet is inevitable, but it happens rarely so this isn't really something you should worry about. That said, you should also have adjusted ranges for that as well. By that, I mean there are going to be hands that you 3bet call, 3bet fold, and 3bet raise with.

    QQ and AK are just the hands that can be argued for all spots.
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    Old 05-29-2017, 10:13 PM   #7
    redlineftw
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    Re: 5NL QQ in BB, is there fold on the turn or river?

    You can call turn and fold river when villain shoves. He isn;t ever doing this with worse than QQ, however as hand played out his range isn;t definied until river jam. Villian has Agression factor 0!!!!!

    I don't mind the 3bet pre however once he 4 bets you are pretty much against AKs, KK+ everytime.. I haven't looked at spoiler but given you have posted the hand here i assume villain has KK+.
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    Old 05-31-2017, 03:45 PM   #8
    Nevyn
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    Re: 5NL QQ in BB, is there fold on the turn or river?

    I think the mistake is before the river.

    Villain is in position and 4 bet you. Unless you have been squeezing a lot or villain has been very aggressive that should set off alarm bells. A lot of players aren't even 4 betting AK there.

    Even worse, a call makes your hand pretty face up, making it easier for hands beating you to get paid, and hands which are behind figure out if they can bluff you.

    I think pre flop should be 3 bet fold unless you have a good basis for putting AKs or bluffs in his pre-flop 4 bet range. And if you do, probably 5-bet.

    As played, it is tough to call the turn. I mean, by calling pre flop we assumed he was being aggressive enough to bluff 4 bet, or to 4 bet hands like AK or JJ. But if he is going to be that aggressive, is he really going to check back the flop with the hands you are hoping he has?

    When he bets the turn, the only hands that make sense with his line are AA and KK.
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    Old 06-04-2017, 08:33 PM   #9
    JFKHamburger
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    Re: 5NL QQ in BB, is there fold on the turn or river?

    bahhh micros HJ (unknown) vs BB QQ just ship it pre.
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    Old 06-04-2017, 08:40 PM   #10
    JFKHamburger
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    Re: 5NL QQ in BB, is there fold on the turn or river?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by krikara View Post
    The thing is if you call (preflop (OOP and) turn, you have to call that river. There are no hands (ahm Slowplayed TT+) that he can have that are losing on the turn and beat you on the river unless he has 99.
    but kikara is right call down as played.
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