the camel is a camel and straws are straws.

No - you're using the whole proverb/parable wrong. The camel is not at fault when it comes to breaking its back by piling too much stuff onto it.

You can not claim that it is at fault for someone else loading it up too heavily. Either the thing being loaded up is faulty (which it can't be if it's a camel) or the people loading it up are at fault. That whole proverb is about somebody piling too much stuff on when they shouldn't.

Claiming the camel is at fault and should be fixed is totally against everything that proverb is trying to tell you.

lololol airwave. you're disgusting

Typical. And no one talks about all the innocent straws whose backs were broken by camels stepping on them. Bunch of strawists.

actually, no. the saying has nothing to do with any sort of massive victim blaming conspiracy. it's an allusion regarding an act seen as the last in a line of unacceptable occurrences. you are the one using it incorrectly.

the simple fact is that **** like this has been going on for at least a decade (or at least, that's as long as i remember it really being an issue, but i'm sure it's been longer as i'm not that old), and most of the people complaining about this issue do not give two ****s about zoe quinn herself. To them, this is no different than doritogate, the lauren wainright fiasco, or whatever that german guy's name was from 2007 that i can never remember. every ****ing time some new AAA game comes out that's heralded as "the greatest game of the year," this **** gets rehashed. it happened with bioshock infinite, it happened with GTA 5, etc. it happens multiple times ever year, and apparently you're the only one that never notices it.

i'm sorry she's received death threats. i'm even sorry she's "had" to move out of her house. and i'm sorry that a minority of people that play video games feel like they need to **** on her because she's a woman. but i'm also tired of not being able to talk about an issue that's tangentially related to her without being accused of either being misogynistic or harboring to those who are. it's like not being allowed to hate al sharpton and racism at the same time.

So... that's a lot of words.

The camel is still not to blame for others loading it beyond capacity.

And no - I'm not the one using the saying incorrectly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_t...camel%27s_back

yes you are.

How on earth do you link to an article proving my point and then add a "yes you are"?

Seriously? Did you not read the article you yourself linked to?

airwave, please stop, you're embarrassing yourself. also, what a stupid argument

Something about camels and nudes... Nude camels... IDK.

that article proves you wrong. as i said before, it shows that the saying has nothing to do with whose fault it is or victim blaming, as in the way you're trying to use it, but has to do with people's patience for particular issues.

so really, the public's patience for the idiocy that is the broken state of gaming journalism is the camel, not the journalism itself. the zoe quinn fiasco is just the latest issue that's sparked a bigger uproar over ****ty journalism, even though her issue in particular is unwarranted. but just because it looks like she didn't actually contribute to the situation and it's pretty much just a pissed off ex doesn't mean that everyone that now wants to talk about the journalism issue of it and just have everyone shut up about zoe quinn should be silenced.

i'm embarrassing myself because i think talking about inside deals in industries is a bad thing? sorry, but no.

You answer my quote:

By linking to an article saying:

And then still try to claim that it's the camel who is at fault?

Thanks for a reasonable post Gizmo! Responding to the bolded, I think it's silly for large game news websites to give any attention to this handful of forum dwellers looking to stir up trouble and piss people off like ZQ and AS by trying to scare them with threats and doxxing. That just gives them validation that they're making an impact when they can so easily hijack the attention of the entire gaming media, and gives them incentive to do it again in the future - you're not going to shame people like that in to changing their behavior.

And most of the people that want to talk about something other than how these women have been treated still preface their forum posts with comments on how ridiculous their treatment has been. Go look over the NeoGAF forum threads about this, or the comment sections on articles from Eurogamer/Polygon etc. dealing with this. No one is supporting that behavior that I've seen. At worst you get a few people saying they either made up some of the threats to get attention, or are using those threats strategically for some advantage. That seems to be where most of the threat/abuse controversy is coming from, but even the people making those claims are relying on the principle that those kinds of threats are ****ed up.

So I don't agree that the online abuse from a few trolls is the whole story. Part of it is about how insular and chummy the press are with both AAA and indie developers, part of it is a response to how the press are treating their viewers by attempting to shame them by lumping everyone together with the handful of trolls causing this mess, part of it is just people sick of how much attention this issue is getting out of proportion to the actual contributions of people like ZQ and AS to the industry, and part of it is people wanting a legitimate discussion on what barriers women face in either developing or reporting on games.

If you've been around the internet for more than a handful of years, you're going to have run in to some awful **** without having been a prominent person, we all have. Some of the streamers lately that have been swatted have faced a far more serious threat to their life than AS just did. Where was the call to action in those cases and why aren't they part of the current discussion if we're looking at online threats and abuse? I suppose another part of this story is that most online gamers have faced at least some small part of the harassment these girls are getting, and some people (maybe a lot) are unconsciously resentful that they aren't just shrugging it off. I'm a bit guilty of that, even though it's obvious that actually being actively targeted by a group of people willing to crack in to online accounts and call their homes is far worse than having someone say they're going to skull-**** your dead corpse in a game of Halo. But again, the few people that aren't disgusted with this kind of behavior are only going to get worse from any press attention given to them, not decide to change in to less hateful people.

you've used almost every argumentative fallacy and a bunch of sheer idiocy, just like every other of your ilk who have been a total embarrassment by those who identify with the video game culture. do us all a favor and never post again

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHO IS AT FAULT.

seriously, do you read?

So... when you're in an argument and people at both sides of the argument start telling you that you are making no sense, it might be time to consider that perhaps you're making no sense..?

Maybe the camel is the public's tolerance for corruption in video game journalism and the straws are each bits of corruption in VG journalism, with favorable stories about EA being roughly the weight of a small house built from straw

Afghanistan tried ignoring their enraged extremists, how'd that work out for all involved?

Are you really equating radical Muslims willing to kill and commit suicide for their cause with 4chan trolls looking for lols?

i don't even identify with video game culture. i just get tired of being told that i am responsible for all the ****tiness that goes on in anything and everything that i'm tangentially related to because i happen to like a few video games. unlike people voraciously defending zoe quinn, however, if people manage to talk about all the ****tiness that goes on in gaming, i'm not going to get butthurt until people start telling me that by not actively doing anything about it other than, you know, not being a ****head myself (because i'm just too ****ing jaded to waste my time), i'm just as misogynistic as the people saying that they think it'd be funny if she got raped. that **** pisses me off.

i do, however, care about corruption in capitalistic industries (hell, it's the main reason i refuse to work in industry and decided to stay in academia) and like to talk about issues that happen in more than just video gaming. you don't see any of it because this is pretty much the only interaction i actually have with you, so you have no background on which to draw to determine whether i actually care about it or just want to be mean to a woman. trust me, i don't really care about zoe quinn, but i do at least care a little bit about the media sucking at its ****ing job.

weevil- LOL u definitely seem mad

airwave dude if you don't identify with gamer culture why do you get tired of being told "you" are responsible? ****ing pathetic attempt to play victim here by you and weevil. People are writing articles about the (serious and very real) flaws of this random subculture of socially awkward losers, and even though you could simply choose not to read that ****, you're whining like you're the one getting death threats.

Grow the **** up.

I'd ask how old you are but you're an even older member than me.. so.. u seem mad bro

"We've lost a lot of our nerd icons to the 'feminist' cause recently, but we all know how the top dogs at sites like IGN feel. "

Oops.