I just wanted to remind that we have a 2+2 guild in PoE. We used to be very active and there was a lot of going on but most dedicated players left since then (those with 3k+ hours). Due to beginning of new league you can find again 3-5+ people online, which is nice. We have a lot of stash tabs and so on. If any of you is playing alone and wants to join for chat/help/advice then shoot me a message, my ign is Sigri.

youre a guild mod? i thought needle was the only one left. could we try to mod some of the more active players?

sure, just give me the names, I was not around during breach

I played the first two acts. Knowing I have to go through the game 3 times right now is making it hard for me to play this season. Especially knowing that the next season is 10 acts, all new content...I just don't have the motivation for this season.

Anything with the legacy league likely to change my mind? Been watching a few streamers and I don't see the grind to maps worth it at the moment.

Yeh I know what you mean. Managed normal earlier, but definitely still a bit burnt out from caning Breach.

Will have to see if I can get back into it over the next week or so, probably just playing short sessions.

This has probably been asked, argued and answered before, but here goes...

Do arpg's need to be this long? For me, the fun part of the game is progression and trying new builds, and maybe the slot machine element. The gameplay itself is moderately entertaining in a zen kind of way. But the ratio of the grind vs actual decisions and modulation of gameplay is so high. It reportedly takes an expert 8-12 hours to reach endgame. But a scrub like me takes almost 8 hours to complete normal, and that's while following a guide and not mulling over decisions. So to try out a new build takes me almost a full workweek. I already have a job, thanks.

POE is basically endlessly replayable. Why does it feel the need to dilute its content so much? Wouldn't it be more fun for everyone if the turnaround time between builds would be shorter, so you could experiment more, and spend more time enjoying end game content? I would love to experiment and try my own non-cookie cutter builds but the barrier to that is the propect of spending 20+ hours building something that won't work, throwing it away and having to start again. That's just not acceptable for a leisure activity imo.

because it's not made for casual players

Once you get going a bit, and get a bit of currency, it's not too hard to reset a bunch of skill points. Also characters in Standard will get free, full skill tree resets when they change stuff, so it might be worth trying stuff out there first.

I'm hoping the new acts in 3.0 will take away a lot of the mental boredom of repeating 3 identical difficulties one after another.

So grindy = hardcore?

That's a pretty lame form of hardcore. I much prefer when games are actually hard, and don't depend on ridiculous time investment alone to weed out "the casuals". Take for instance old-school rogulikes. Beating them is an achievement based on skill and knowledge. If you are good, you can complete a run in a few hours, depending on the game. If you suck, you can't win. Period. That's hardcore.

The fun comes from improving and gradually reaching further and further in the game. POE doesn't have that. The first time the game becomes remotely challenging is in merc. After many hours of unchallenging repetitive gameplay.

Would poe be a worse game for hardcore players if they would reduce the drudgery, and turn up the real difficulty?

i dont know, i was in merc on the first day of this league so the hard mode started pretty early.

making normal and cruel harder (and therefore longer) would probably be the worst possible thing they could do for both new players and veterans

That's not what I mean. I mean condense the experience down. Make the ratio of grind vs. tough/interesting decisions better.

But fine, I'll stop now. Obviously a lot of people are happy with the game as is.

Grim Dawn is also long. Diablo 2 is also long. It's just the way it's supposed to be. Some type of games need to take time.

I think at least some of the players in the persistent leagues just use the orbs to wipe their passives when they want to try a new build. Seems like there could be a mechanic for wiping all your passives once every so often. (Well, there sort of is, I think they give you the option to reset every time they tweak the passive tree).

I have read that you can get through merciless in 8 hours of play (i.e. lv 1 to through merciless), but I move through very slowly myself (and usually rip somewhere in cruel).

I agree that replaying the game 3 times is boring. There is a sense of progression in that better gear continues to drop and you get that reward loop, but it is monotonous to replay the same thing over and over. I think it is inherit in any game like this that eventually you'll get to the end game and think, "is this all there is?" Eventually it all just becomes a farm-fest.

I was thinking about this yesterday and I think GGG realizes it too, which is why they are changing up their game. It just takes them time to test and implement it.

With how much more fun POE is compared to D3, I don't understand why D3 doesn't start adopting some of the same features. I never got into D1 or D2, but all I can say is that POE is what I wish D3 would be. Maybe we'll be fortunate when and if D4 ever comes out.

Doubtful, Blizzard's target audience are masses, not 'serious' gamers.

Whatever dude, have fun playing some deep 5 hour long story RPG.

I dont find this game easy at all.
Last night I died 50 times to dominus in normal and quit,thats how bad I am.
I figured I had to grind a better gear and level up a bit so Ill do that later.
Im following a guide but most of the guides I see,you have no idea how to play to arrive to the final build.
Even with the leveling tree (50/75/100) Im on my own to decide whats good and what skills and gear to use.
Which result in the lamest char I ever had so far at dominus (((

Anyway after about 80h I can say this game is awesome for its huge content and difficulty,but I still prefer D3 gameplay by far(feels smoothier and I dig the graphs more).
And cant wait for 3.0,the 10 acts will be refreshing I hate the looping in these games.(looping isnt content)

Come on, dude. Don't use a ******ed image macro as a sort of knock-out argument.

ARPGs have always worked under the simple premise that you kill **** to obtain gear which will enable you to kill more and better **** to obtain more and better gear, which will...

This is an inherently stupid premise to begin with. But like it or not, this premise is oddly satisfying and addicting to a lot of players. It is to these players that ARPGs are targeted towards. And no bulls, who have no choice in the matter, are forced to race through the streets of Pamplona in the process either.

In short: If you don't like the game, don't play it, but please refrain from calling PETA.

Dude, if the argument is "we do it like this cause that's how its always been done" then I reserve the right to use ******ed image macros to retort

I like this game enough that I'm still playing but I have the feeling I would like it more if it were designed differently. I also have experienced other genres (roguelikes) that I think ARPGs could learn a lot from.

POE is none of these things.

I have hundreds of hours into this game and have had seasons where i have accumulated a very decent bank. The grinding to end game in the current system is downright horrible and I only end up making at max 2 builds per season. If they even allowed a rushing component to the game that is better than the current one I'd be all for it.

I can play through the content once with no complaint...maybe twice but I am incredibly frustrated, no matter how fast I have gone, getting to merc. And I can assume that even GGG believes the current system is flawed due to a massive wave of content being put into the game to avoid that. I feel like I read recently that they saw there was a dropoff in players after normal or something and some of the fear was the tediousness.

That has nothing to do with casual or hardcore. It has to do with the game. And I love POE, that should be obvious, and they have a decent amount of money from me. I don't know maybe the game finally burned out on me after ~4 years.

Oh and yeah...it's been 4 years....

I'M STILL WAITING FOR BALANCED PVP.

Edit: And I would be very interested to hear of an argument for Cruel and its importance to the game. Because I have no idea it's purpose and would like to be enlightened. I felt the same in D2 for nightmare except D2 actually allowed legit rushing and powerleveling.

I wish a single Civ 5 playthrough would also take me an hour tops, I have no time for more

Yeah, many of us can definitely be rightfully burned out. I believe I had 20 chars the first leagues came around (and when hardcore was the only reasonable option to play), even if I didn't get to merc all of the time but died sooner that still accounts probably for 40+ playthroughs. I somehow felt desire to continue.

I agree that cruel could be removed, luckily it'll be no longer the problem soon, can't wait for the changes. But with 10 acts I bet someone like Wolfram will say 'hey it takes me 24 hours to endgame, that sucks, I got a job you know?'.

I don't think you get my point. Maybe I didn't explain it well.

I have no problem spending countless total hours on a game. I've certainly spent a lot on many games. I have a problem when the majority of those hours are brainless decision free grinding.

If the 10 acts will take as long to complete and offer the same strategic depth as the current 4 acts of normal, cruel and merc, then yes... I will complain. I would like more player agency per hour than the game is currently offering. But hey, that's just me. I don't play poe for the story. I play it for the action strategy fantasy combat simulator that I perceive it to be.

That's not the argument at all, though. The reason it's been done like this for a long time is not that it's been done like this for a long time. It's been done like this because it's what works well. Even the repeating of content, that's been a staple of ARPGs since forever, and a flawed one no less, works to enough of an extent that players keep coming back for more. Yet you can't really claim that GGG are traditionalists, dead-set on clinging to the status-quo just because.

They are the first company to abolish the straight up repeating of content via difficulties. Don't quote me on this, as I'm not 100% sure this is true. Even if not, though, the change to 10 acts to endgame is the first high-profile example of an ARPG abolishing the difficulty system.

So no, they don't continue chasing bulls through Pamplona just "because we've been torturing animals for 100s of years and that's just the way it is". They do have the balls to innovate and make changes. Some loved by the community, some not so (see: Xbox version of the game which is highly controversial).

They won't turn the ARPG they make into something it's not supposed to be, though. There's plenty of story driven stuff (long and short) out there in the gaming market (and I love some of it; KoTOR is high up on my all-time favs in games). ARPGs, however, are grindy and they are supposed to be. I have not the slightest clue, nor could I care less if I tried about PoE's story and lore.

I care about finding **** that enables me to kill stronger **** than that I am able to kill with the **** my character is currently equipped with.