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Old 08-20-2013, 03:52 PM   #12501
Anssi A
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Re: Magic: The gathering Online

Vexing Devil is bad even if he levels up your Experiment Ones. You want 3-4 Tarmogoyfs. More Fetches instead of 1-2 Gorges since you don't ever want to be in spot where your Boar doesn't have +1/+1. Mutagenetic Growth and Colossal Might just seems bad. Maybe you want Scavenging Ooze, maybe not. Searing Blaze is really good.
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Old 08-20-2013, 04:24 PM   #12502
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Re: Magic: The gathering Online

i dont have money for tarmogoyfs and i think vexing devil is good. 1 mana for so much damage is super good imo. Every time i have played i am doing good no need to change that

I like mutagenetic because it plays for free in this aggro deck. I agree with colossal but i have one time and dunno what should i swap with

Any other thoughts or suggestions?
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Old 08-20-2013, 05:38 PM   #12503
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Re: Magic: The gathering Online

Giving your opponent the option of what your spell does when it has two or more modes is almost always a much harsher drawback than it seems at first, so spells that seem good for their cost despite what your opponent picks can be deceiving. That said, I am not sure how good Vexing Devil is in that deck. I know Zaiem (boltyou on here) plays it some so he may have some advice. I agree Scavenging Ooze may be a good addition to that deck.

Vexing Devil is good in a deck that can really punish your opponent for paying the life. A deck like burn with lots of lightning bolt effects is typically where you want Vexing Devil. I have not played Gruul Aggro in Modern so I cannot really say very much about how effective he is in there. I am not sure how fast the deck typically deals damage. But if it has been working for you then great.
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Old 08-20-2013, 05:44 PM   #12504
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Re: Magic: The gathering Online

Can anybody confirm that an Inkmoth Nexus Blinkmoth which has been turned into a 5/5 artifact creature via Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas' -1 ability reverts back to a 1/1 artifact creature when I activate the Nexus on the following turn?
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Old 08-20-2013, 06:19 PM   #12505
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Re: Magic: The gathering Online

I think if you activate it again it must revert to being a 1/1 artifact creature. The interesting question to me is what happens when you make it a 5/5 artifact creature and what happens at the end of the turn. Firstly does it keep flying and infect (I would guess no)? Secondly at the end of the turn, does it revert to being just a land (again I would guess no)? That makes me wonder why you would want to activate the ability again, since it would remain an artifact creature land until you did anyway.
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Old 08-20-2013, 06:38 PM   #12506
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Re: Magic: The gathering Online

I am not an expert at Modern Stompy, but that looks like a reasonable place to start. I don't know if Mutagenic Growth is really where you want to be, but I guess it's a 0 mana shock. You can find decks of the week every Friday on www.dailymtg.com, and also on the What's Happening page for ideas. You should get non-M10 lands and black bordered Kird Apes imo.
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Old 08-20-2013, 06:58 PM   #12507
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Re: Magic: The gathering Online

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Originally Posted by Deorum View Post
Can anybody confirm that an Inkmoth Nexus Blinkmoth which has been turned into a 5/5 artifact creature via Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas' -1 ability reverts back to a 1/1 artifact creature when I activate the Nexus on the following turn?
Second on the list: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Ca...t%20of%20bolas

Quote:
If the target of the second ability is already an artifact creature, its power and toughness will each become 5. This overwrites all previous effects that set the creature's power and toughness to specific values. Any power- or toughness-setting effects that start to apply after this ability resolves will overwrite this effect.
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Old 08-20-2013, 07:05 PM   #12508
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Re: Magic: The gathering Online

I've been trying to find the answer to this since my last post but I can't find it anywhere.

Do keyword abilities remain if a creature "becomes" a specific other creature like with with Tezzeret's ability? Like could you use the ability on an opponent's blightsteel collossus when you have 9 infect counters and then it not be able to give you any more?
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Old 08-20-2013, 07:09 PM   #12509
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Can't post too much, but layers. Time stamp orders.
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Old 08-20-2013, 07:35 PM   #12510
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Re: Magic: The gathering Online

So in the case of the inkmoth I think that means it does keep flying and infect, since gaining those abilities happens in a layer after the type changing.

Since Tezzerret's power doesn't explicitly state it loses all abilities I would assume that a Blightsteel would also keep them, but I'm less certain about that since it's not an effect being applied by something else, more just a generic question about how changing a creature's type effects any keywords.
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Old 08-20-2013, 07:38 PM   #12511
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Re: Magic: The gathering Online

Tezzeret doesn't affect abilities at all; it just makes the creature a 5/5. If it removed all abilities, it would have to say so like Humility.
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Old 08-21-2013, 12:54 AM   #12512
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Re: Magic: The gathering Online

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Originally Posted by Deorum View Post
Giving your opponent the option of what your spell does when it has two or more modes is almost always a much harsher drawback than it seems at first, so spells that seem good for their cost despite what your opponent picks can be deceiving. That said, I am not sure how good Vexing Devil is in that deck. I know Zaiem (boltyou on here) plays it some so he may have some advice. I agree Scavenging Ooze may be a good addition to that deck.

Vexing Devil is good in a deck that can really punish your opponent for paying the life. A deck like burn with lots of lightning bolt effects is typically where you want Vexing Devil. I have not played Gruul Aggro in Modern so I cannot really say very much about how effective he is in there. I am not sure how fast the deck typically deals damage. But if it has been working for you then great.
I've tried this deck with and without Vexing Devil, and honestly it's better than it looks. The deck can kill pretty quickly, which is what you need against the combo decks. I wasn't excited to play it, but I saw some lists that were doing well on Magic Online, so I tried it, and I found it to be quite a bit less terrible than it initially seemed. And I generally hate cards that give my opponent choices like that, but it does enough work with evolving E1 (even if they opt to kill it), eating a removal spell if they don't kill it, and overall being a big enough body to be a threat in the early turns that it's worth the card slot IMO.

If you get to the late game it's pretty bad, but you're not likely in good shape if that happens anyway. Even so, Devil + Rancor is capable of attacking through an opposing Tarmogoyf, which is a pretty big deal.

Mutagenic Growth is an interesting card, and one I hadn't tried. Vines of Vastwood was very good in a lot of matchups though. I haven't tried Growth, but Vines does get around Path and Abrupt Decay. I'd try both cards and see which one you like - I just don't know if the mana efficiency is more important than the protection against the non-damage dealing spells.

Searing Blaze is also quite good if you expect a lot of creature matchups. In the spring there were a lot of matchups where it was dead, although it looks like the metagame has shifted back towards being more creature-heavy. Searing Blaze is absolutely awesome when it's good - it's rarely just "an okay card" except against specifically Snapcaster Mage.

Hellspark Elemental is another card you should consider, although it does increase the sequencing complexity of the deck considerably. Sequencing is already a bit tricky, and I would suggest sitting down with some test draws and figuring out the decision trees and just mapping out which sequences result in the most damage of the course of the first three turns. It takes some work and some time, but sometimes you'll find that one line results in doing an extra point of damage, which is absolutely huge.

Other non-Tarmogoyf cards to try:
Skullcrack
Stormblood Berserker
Dismember (I like this a lot more than the one-of Colossal Might)

If you do manage to get your hands on Tarmogoyf, one or two Tarfires is also fine. Some lists from last spring were playing Seal of Fire, but since Eggs isn't a deck, don't bother with that.

The Facebook group for "people who play RG aggro in Modern" (listen, if you're going to do something, MOVE ALL IN AND DO IT RIGHT) has been pretty dead recently since PTQ season's over, but if you're interested, DM me and I can see if I can get you added so that when the group fires up again next spring, you'll have access to good discussion.
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Old 08-21-2013, 10:53 AM   #12513
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Re: Magic: The gathering Online

haha seal of fire is such an amusing trump to eggs
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Old 08-21-2013, 11:06 AM   #12514
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Re: Magic: The gathering Online

Okay, yes the layers of course make the Blinkmoth revert back to a 1/1. I guess what I was more questioning was whether or not the delayed EOT trigger "erases" Tezzeret's ability upon resolution or if its, uh, "dormant" creature form is still a 5/5 artifact creature until the ability is activated again. Or is it just a case of the creature no longer exists and activating it next turn turns it into a different creature as far as the game is concerned?
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:20 PM   #12515
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No, at eot, it will be a 5/5 artifact creature that can tap for a colorless and has an ability to be a 1/1 flyer with infect until end of turn.
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:22 PM   #12516
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It'll also be a land.
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Old 08-21-2013, 10:11 PM   #12517
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Re: Magic: The gathering Online

Should this deck be less greedy? If so, where? There are def some legit combos on colour



Edit: Obviously, went to double island.

Last edited by ProfessorBen; 08-21-2013 at 10:17 PM.
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Old 08-22-2013, 01:24 AM   #12518
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Re: Magic: The gathering Online

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Originally Posted by Cueballmania View Post
No, at eot, it will be a 5/5 artifact creature that can tap for a colorless and has an ability to be a 1/1 flyer with infect until end of turn.
And it will no longer have infect, but will still be a creature after the EOT trigger resolves, correct?
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Old 08-22-2013, 01:37 AM   #12519
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Re: Magic: The gathering Online

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I've tried this deck with and without Vexing Devil, and honestly it's better than it looks. The deck can kill pretty quickly, which is what you need against the combo decks. I wasn't excited to play it, but I saw some lists that were doing well on Magic Online, so I tried it, and I found it to be quite a bit less terrible than it initially seemed. And I generally hate cards that give my opponent choices like that, but it does enough work with evolving E1 (even if they opt to kill it), eating a removal spell if they don't kill it, and overall being a big enough body to be a threat in the early turns that it's worth the card slot IMO.

If you get to the late game it's pretty bad, but you're not likely in good shape if that happens anyway. Even so, Devil + Rancor is capable of attacking through an opposing Tarmogoyf, which is a pretty big deal.

Mutagenic Growth is an interesting card, and one I hadn't tried. Vines of Vastwood was very good in a lot of matchups though. I haven't tried Growth, but Vines does get around Path and Abrupt Decay. I'd try both cards and see which one you like - I just don't know if the mana efficiency is more important than the protection against the non-damage dealing spells.

Searing Blaze is also quite good if you expect a lot of creature matchups. In the spring there were a lot of matchups where it was dead, although it looks like the metagame has shifted back towards being more creature-heavy. Searing Blaze is absolutely awesome when it's good - it's rarely just "an okay card" except against specifically Snapcaster Mage.

Hellspark Elemental is another card you should consider, although it does increase the sequencing complexity of the deck considerably. Sequencing is already a bit tricky, and I would suggest sitting down with some test draws and figuring out the decision trees and just mapping out which sequences result in the most damage of the course of the first three turns. It takes some work and some time, but sometimes you'll find that one line results in doing an extra point of damage, which is absolutely huge.

Other non-Tarmogoyf cards to try:
Skullcrack
Stormblood Berserker
Dismember (I like this a lot more than the one-of Colossal Might)

If you do manage to get your hands on Tarmogoyf, one or two Tarfires is also fine. Some lists from last spring were playing Seal of Fire, but since Eggs isn't a deck, don't bother with that.

The Facebook group for "people who play RG aggro in Modern" (listen, if you're going to do something, MOVE ALL IN AND DO IT RIGHT) has been pretty dead recently since PTQ season's over, but if you're interested, DM me and I can see if I can get you added so that when the group fires up again next spring, you'll have access to good discussion.

I had to play 5 years thats why i miss many things. So far the deck works good most of the time. I do like the elemental

thank you for the analyze
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Old 08-22-2013, 04:53 AM   #12520
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Re: Magic: The gathering Online

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And it will no longer have infect, but will still be a creature after the EOT trigger resolves, correct?
So my understanding is that the turn you activate Inkmoth and Tezzeret it will be a 5/5 flyer with infect, at EOT it will revert to a 5/5 creature without flying or infect because the EOT triggers causes that text to go away (also causes the 1/1 artifact creature text to go away but the 5/5 remains). This is a really weird interaction and I'm not entirely confident of any of this but looking at the layer stuff this is what I came up with.
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Old 08-22-2013, 07:59 AM   #12521
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Re: Magic: The gathering Online

It has nothing to do with triggers. If somethings gains something 'until eot' then during the cleanup phase it loses any of those properties it wouldn't have otherwise. In this case it loses flying and infect. Since the Tezz ability is persistent it remains a 5/5 artifact creature. If you activate Inkmoth again it will override that and become a 1/1 flyer with infect and forget that Tezz ever made it a 5/5, so at the end of that turn it will revert to a land that is not an artifact creature.
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:10 AM   #12522
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Re: Magic: The gathering Online

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haha seal of fire is such an amusing trump to eggs
Don't you mean "was"? Faith's Reward isn't symmetric...
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:19 AM   #12523
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Re: Magic: The gathering Online

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Originally Posted by Willd View Post
So my understanding is that the turn you activate Inkmoth and Tezzeret it will be a 5/5 flyer with infect, at EOT it will revert to a 5/5 creature without flying or infect because the EOT triggers causes that text to go away (also causes the 1/1 artifact creature text to go away but the 5/5 remains). This is a really weird interaction and I'm not entirely confident of any of this but looking at the layer stuff this is what I came up with.
Yes this is my understanding as well.

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It has nothing to do with triggers. If somethings gains something 'until eot' then during the cleanup phase it loses any of those properties it wouldn't have otherwise. In this case it loses flying and infect. Since the Tezz ability is persistent it remains a 5/5 artifact creature. If you activate Inkmoth again it will override that and become a 1/1 flyer with infect and forget that Tezz ever made it a 5/5, so at the end of that turn it will revert to a land that is not an artifact creature.
Ah yes, I was thinking that the activation caused a delayed trigger for some reason, though of course it just happens during cleanup. Not sure why I was thinking it was a trigger. Thanks.
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:26 AM   #12524
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Re: Magic: The gathering Online

As for the RG discussion, Ari Lax (someone who spends a lot of time playing Modern) has been playing RG lately and had this to say about Vexing Devil in a recent article:

Quote:
Vexing Devil: I'm pretty sure I've made this rant before, but Vexing Devil is basically a bad Rakdos Cackler. If they pay life for it, you probably could have hit them at least twice with Cackler. The most common example of this is turn 1. If they don't, Cackler wouldn't have hit them twice. There's these very weird windows where Devil is better, like needing to kill in one turn when they are at three or four or when playing into a sweeper on turn 2 or 3, but I just want the best turn 1 play. Experiment One counters are cute but not much more.
The biggest exception I can think of to a turn 1 Vexing Devil causing 4 damage where Cackler would not is against Pyroclasm.

He also had this to say about Mutagenic Growth:

Quote:
Mutagenic Growth: It doesn't kill Tarmogoyf. It doesn't do a lot of damage to them. Honestly, it really does about nothing. Yes, you are a bit more vulnerable to Pyroclasm in this configuration with Rakdos Cackler, but is trading a card to save a guy rather better than just playing another guy?
And Rancor:

Quote:
Rancor: This isn't a creature. It makes you think it is, but it's not. Lots of decks hope to beat you by trading one for one with your guys until you run out. If your last guy is Rancor, it doesn't attack.
And Scavenging Ooze:

Quote:
Scavenging Ooze: Spoiler alert, but the Grim Lavamancer is pretty bad. You want to use all of your mana to cast spells, and if the game keeps going past that point, you should have already won or lost. In order to make the game end in this time frame, you need your cards to hit hard. So in the battle of the two-drops, Tarmogoyf wins out over the Ooze. Tarmogoyf also helps boost Experiment One, and unlike Vexing Devil this is actually relevant since it's another reason to play an already good card.
And if you cannot afford Goyfs but need more 2 drops he had this to say about Strangleroot Geist:

Quote:
Strangleroot Geist: This card seemed terrible on paper but has been awesome. You want more things with haste against sweepers or just in general because haste is a powerful ability if you are trying to attack people to death on turn 4. Strangleroot Geist is not only a thing with haste but the front side plays well against sweepers. You can't play more than two since you can't cast it off Burning-Tree Emissary.
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:43 AM   #12525
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Re: Magic: The gathering Online

would you mind sharing articles link? thanks
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