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Old 05-14-2009, 09:28 AM   #126
Raygun Gothic
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Re: Any NetHack players?

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Died on the Astral Plane... so close and yet so far. Ugh.
!
What happened?
(and how were the other planes? did they use up some of your AoLS?)

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Old 05-14-2009, 02:32 PM   #127
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Re: Any NetHack players?

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!
What happened?
(and how were the other planes? did they use up some of your AoLS?)
Everything up until the Astral Plane was totally smooth sailing. Never had any problems. I think that made me a little overconfident. I ran into Death pretty much immediately on the Astral Plane. I thought he would be hanging around one of the altars, but I guess he comes after you. I also didn't realize he had this life-draining attack that would suck away so drastically from your max HP. So I lost a lot of max HP dealing with him. I also stupidly zapped him once with my wand of death even though I knew that makes him stronger. I eventually battled my way into the rightmost temple, but it wasn't the right one. I thought it might be the right one because when I identified the altar tile it said "aligned altar", but that doesn't mean it's the altar of your alignment. I got stuck in a corner next to Death and was stunned by something so I couldn't fight or move in the direction I wanted to go. Realized soon that potions of healing don't cure stunning. I eventually read that a unicorn horn should cure stunning, so I applied one, but it didn't seem to do anything. Not sure why. Went through multiple AoLS and eventually died.

I think next time I would:

1) Wear a ring of Conflict. I realize that gives you four hostile angels rather than one tame one when you enter the plane, but I think that's worth it. The four hostile angels will fight one another, right? Will other monsters fight the Riders as well? Will the Riders fight someone other than you?
2) Run away from Death.
3) Use ESP to identify where the riders are.
4) Use Create Monster scripts or wands to block the spaces around me.
5) Use wands of teleportation to move nasties away (not the riders) and clear a path for myself.
6) Keep all the things I need in main inventory.
7) Not zap Death with a Wand of Death.
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Old 05-14-2009, 04:46 PM   #128
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Re: Any NetHack players?

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Everything up until the Astral Plane was totally smooth sailing. Never had any problems. I think that made me a little overconfident. I ran into Death pretty much immediately on the Astral Plane. I thought he would be hanging around one of the altars, but I guess he comes after you. I also didn't realize he had this life-draining attack that would suck away so drastically from your max HP. So I lost a lot of max HP dealing with him. I also stupidly zapped him once with my wand of death even though I knew that makes him stronger. I eventually battled my way into the rightmost temple, but it wasn't the right one. I thought it might be the right one because when I identified the altar tile it said "aligned altar", but that doesn't mean it's the altar of your alignment. I got stuck in a corner next to Death and was stunned by something so I couldn't fight or move in the direction I wanted to go. Realized soon that potions of healing don't cure stunning. I eventually read that a unicorn horn should cure stunning, so I applied one, but it didn't seem to do anything. Not sure why. Went through multiple AoLS and eventually died.

I think next time I would:

1) Wear a ring of Conflict. I realize that gives you four hostile angels rather than one tame one when you enter the plane, but I think that's worth it. The four hostile angels will fight one another, right? Will other monsters fight the Riders as well? Will the Riders fight someone other than you?
2) Run away from Death.
3) Use ESP to identify where the riders are.
4) Use Create Monster scripts or wands to block the spaces around me.
5) Use wands of teleportation to move nasties away (not the riders) and clear a path for myself.
6) Keep all the things I need in main inventory.
7) Not zap Death with a Wand of Death.
Ouch
That's why I asked you if you had a towel/blindfold etc so you could use telepathy to see which altar Death was at, and visit that one last. I'm impressed you made it that far through the game if you didn't know in detail the uses of unicorn horns; did you use it to cure you from Juiblex's disease-attack? And what did you use before to cure stunning/blindness/confusion etc?
Also:
1) Conflict is a good idea - oddly, though, I haven't used it on the Astral Plane in any of my 3 ascensions, so go figure. I'm genuinely not sure if it affects the Riders...
2) Yes. This. Famine isn't too deadly, Pestilence can be a problem if you can't heal fatal illnesses, and Death you only want to go to if you have to.
3) Definitely this
4) Interesting idea. It's worth noting the priests/priestesses mostly use Summon Insects which actually fills a lot of the Plane up with harmless junk for you, making things a fair bit easier if you try to cleave a path through the insects,
5) Possibly a good move; again, personally I've never used it.
6) Did you have useful stuff in your BoH?
7) Also a good plan.
That's still seriously brutal; I really can't imagine what it would be like to get that far and not make it, so you have my sympathy

Also, unicorn horns sometimes take multiple uses to cure things - also, if it wasn't blessed/uncursed, that won't have helped either.
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Old 05-14-2009, 05:09 PM   #129
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Re: Any NetHack players?

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Ouch
That's why I asked you if you had a towel/blindfold etc so you could use telepathy to see which altar Death was at, and visit that one last. I'm impressed you made it that far through the game if you didn't know in detail the uses of unicorn horns; did you use it to cure you from Juiblex's disease-attack? And what did you use before to cure stunning/blindness/confusion etc?
Also:
1) Conflict is a good idea - oddly, though, I haven't used it on the Astral Plane in any of my 3 ascensions, so go figure. I'm genuinely not sure if it affects the Riders...
2) Yes. This. Famine isn't too deadly, Pestilence can be a problem if you can't heal fatal illnesses, and Death you only want to go to if you have to.
3) Definitely this
4) Interesting idea. It's worth noting the priests/priestesses mostly use Summon Insects which actually fills a lot of the Plane up with harmless junk for you, making things a fair bit easier if you try to cleave a path through the insects,
5) Possibly a good move; again, personally I've never used it.
6) Did you have useful stuff in your BoH?
7) Also a good plan.
That's still seriously brutal; I really can't imagine what it would be like to get that far and not make it, so you have my sympathy

Also, unicorn horns sometimes take multiple uses to cure things - also, if it wasn't blessed/uncursed, that won't have helped either.
Thanks for your sympathy. I was bitching to my wife last night and she replied "it's just a game". She's right of course but it wasn't really what I wanted to hear at that point.

Potions of full and extra healing heal the sickness that Pestilence gives you, and I had a bunch of those so he wasn't too much of a problem.

I think I lost my ESP intrinsic at some point, so I'm not sure a towel would have helped. Well, more to the point, I pretty much knew where Death was the whole time - he was right next to me. But I couldn't really move fast enough to get away from him due to being surrounded by other nasty monsters.

Stunning had never been a big problem for me before. It always went away in a few turns, so I never bothered to study up on how to cure it. Also, in the past it seemed like when I tried to move when stunned I would *usually* move in the direction I wanted to go. Maybe 25% of the time I would go in a different direction. But when I died last night I had no control over what direction I was going.
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Old 05-15-2009, 06:30 PM   #130
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Re: Any NetHack players?

I can imagine you didn't; losing a game as obscenely difficult as nethack is always brutal, and I'm sure especially so right at the end.
Potions make sense for Pestilence, though the unicorn horn is re-usable and cures illness, stunning, confusion and blindness. I think that's the four...
I'm trying to think how you could have lost your ESP, but I can't think of anything that could do that. Hmmmm. And stunning is certainly the least deadly of the various conditions, but pretty brutal I guess when Death gets you in a corner
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Old 05-15-2009, 08:08 PM   #131
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Re: Any NetHack players?

I used the word brutal twice. I wonder if this is because I've been playing Dead Space and there are limbs flying everywhere. HMMMM
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Old 05-16-2009, 12:24 AM   #132
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Re: Any NetHack players?

Dwarf fortress rules (don't attack NetHack players)

Engraved on the wall is a superiorly designed image of Calltemples the werewolf and Rimtar Labortemples the Coast of Odors the dwarf by Tekkud Ezumrab. Calltemples is making a plaintive gesture. Rimtar Labortemples the Coast of Odors is laughing. The artwork related to the mortal wounding of the werewolf Calltemples by the dwarf Rimtar Labortemples the Coast of Odors in Teacherlabored in the early winter of 129.
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Old 05-16-2009, 03:44 PM   #133
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Re: Any NetHack players?

Crawl is annoying me. Coming from NH, I'm used to there being some breakout moment where your power level jumps drastically, and I don't get the same feeling from a +2/+2 sword of freezing or a new spellbook that I get from a Mjollner or Exalibur or +5 silver dragon scale armor or ring of conflict. I feel weak at level 1 and still weak at level 10.

Also, another "Which weapon?" quiz:

Hand weapons
g - a +4,+2 dagger of protection
x - a +3,+2 elven short sword of speed (weapon)
y - a +0,+3 orcish dagger of venom
H - a +2,+1 dagger of returning (quivered)
R - a +0,+0 orcish short sword of freezing
S - the mace of the Mosquito {crush, AC+5}
(You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon)
It inflicts extra damage upon your enemies.
It affects your AC (+5).

You have 78 experience left.

Skills:
- Level 8 Fighting
- Level 11 Short Blades
- Level 3 Throwing
- Level 12 Dodging
- Level 5 Stealth
- Level 2 Stabbing
- Level 1 Traps & Doors
- Level 7 Spellcasting
- Level 7 Conjurations
+ Level 1 Divinations
- Level 2 Air Magic
- Level 8 Poison Magic


You have 8 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

Your Spells Type Power Success Level
a - Sting Pois/Conj ##### Excellent 1
b - Mephitic Cloud Pois/Air/Conj ####...... Great 3
c - Cure Poison Pois ######.... Excellent 2
d - Venom Bolt Pois/Conj #####..... Good 5
e - Detect Creatures Divn ##..... Good 2
f - Magic Mapping Erth/Divn ##.... Terrible 4

Last edited by ddubois; 05-16-2009 at 03:49 PM.
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Old 05-16-2009, 06:14 PM   #134
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Re: Any NetHack players?

AAREGETHRTWHRWT
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Old 05-17-2009, 11:25 PM   #135
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Re: Any NetHack players?

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Crawl is annoying me. Coming from NH, I'm used to there being some breakout moment where your power level jumps drastically, and I don't get the same feeling from a +2/+2 sword of freezing or a new spellbook that I get from a Mjollner or Exalibur or +5 silver dragon scale armor or ring of conflict. I feel weak at level 1 and still weak at level 10.
It's def. a different feel than NH... it's uncommon to find gamebreaking equipment/resources because of the rarity of guaranteed item sources.I think part of your frustration might stem from your character development... hybrids are tricky until you have more Crawl experience. If you dilute your skills too much, you will end up underpowered in the early game.

Quote:
Also, another "Which weapon?" quiz:

Hand weapons
x - a +3,+2 elven short sword of speed (weapon)
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Old 05-18-2009, 05:16 AM   #136
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Re: Any NetHack players?

Ok, what do you do as a magic caster type (deep elf fire elementalist at the time) when you run into a centaur? This is like the third time I've died to one and it's frustrating. I have crap for AC and they're impossible to run away from so if they see me, I die.
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Old 05-18-2009, 06:51 PM   #137
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Re: Any NetHack players?

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I think part of your frustration might stem from your character development... hybrids are tricky until you have more Crawl experience. If you dilute your skills too much, you will end up underpowered in the early game.
I wasn't particularly trying to be a hybrid. It's just so much more convenient to hit things with a dagger than try to kill everything 100% with spells. If it's harder than a hobgoblin, I'd zap it a couple times before stabbing it to death; if it's a wussie monster, I don't even bother with a spell. It seems like it would be very tedious to kill everything with 100% spells, and mana regen after every fight. Is that the S.O.P. for casters?
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Old 05-18-2009, 10:15 PM   #138
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Re: Any NetHack players?

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Ok, what do you do as a magic caster type (deep elf fire elementalist at the time) when you run into a centaur? This is like the third time I've died to one and it's frustrating. I have crap for AC and they're impossible to run away from so if they see me, I die.
Mephitic Cloud, Repel Missiles, Summon Butterflies/Small Mammals(Meat shields), Swiftness, etc if you have any of those. Sticky Flame+run(pref around corners/behind closed doors)

?Tele,?Blinking,!Speed, etc

Also, dying to centaurs and such a lot might mean you're not exploring properly--use all the downstairs to a level and try to keep close to upstairs when you're vulnerable. Try to preserve your tactical opportunities by staying away from wide open spaces, esp. at Centaur depth. Retreat to a cleared level to heal and regenerate HP/MP.

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I wasn't particularly trying to be a hybrid. It's just so much more convenient to hit things with a dagger than try to kill everything 100% with spells. It seems like it would be very tedious to kill everything with 100% spells, and mana regen after every fight. Is that the S.O.P. for casters?
Not sure if you're doing this, but macros are key to reduce clicks for casters. I do think it's good to invest some skill points in fighting and dodging as the game progresses, but you have to make sure you don't run short on raw killing power.
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Old 05-19-2009, 04:24 PM   #139
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Re: Any NetHack players?

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A troll monk with the god who gives you those random cards is just awesome.
Wow, troll monks start out retardedly strong! I just run up and kick Sigmund's ass as soon as I see him. You can't die unless you play bad like me and let yourself get swarmed by multiple orc wizards or something. I hate never ever being able to cast a spell though.

In fact, what's the downside to making a Troll wizard, just to get access to the exceedingly useful starting spellbook, and then just playing him like a monk? I haven't looked at all the starting spellbooks for all the classes, but book of minor magic flame seem like the nuts: besides damage (which I wouldn't really use except to shoot a runner), there's blink, slow, and confuse! I'll be behind in my Unarmed skill, but, does that really matter? Where can I see damage damage for unarmed claws at varying skill levels?

One thing I don't get is, when, if ever, do you try to switch from unarmed to using a weapon though? Do you just play Unarmed until you find a kick-ass artifact, then switch to that skill? If I do that, I'll feel like I'm wasted a ton of skill points in Unarmed. Which leads me back to the Troll Wizard idea.... Maybe I'm just not "getting it" with regards to the strategy inherent in the skill/leveling system.
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Old 05-19-2009, 05:25 PM   #140
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Re: Any NetHack players?

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Wow, troll monks start out retardedly strong! I just run up and kick Sigmund's ass as soon as I see him. You can't die unless you play bad like me and let yourself get swarmed by multiple orc wizards or something. I hate never ever being able to cast a spell though.
Try Troll Chaos Knight of Makhleb... once you get the heal from kills power (comes very early--D1 or D2), they become unstoppable killing machines. You might really like Makhleb actually... he gives you conjurations and demon summoning powers via the invocations skill.

Unfortunately, trolls suck(only ogres are worse) in the very late game. My last two trolls both died on the final level of the game and both were unwinnable scenarios. Of course, I must admit that they can consistently get to the end of the game as well by virtue of their early game strength.

Quote:
One thing I don't get is, when, if ever, do you try to switch from unarmed to using a weapon though? Do you just play Unarmed until you find a kick-ass artifact, then switch to that skill? If I do that, I'll feel like I'm wasted a ton of skill points in Unarmed. Which leads me back to the Troll Wizard idea.... Maybe I'm just not "getting it" with regards to the strategy inherent in the skill/leveling system.
Unarmed is never wasted for a fighter since it gives extra unarmed attacks(kick,headbutt,auxiliary punches) even when you use a weapon. With a troll or ghoul you want to stick with claws unless you find a very strong weapon(katana, speed weapons with 10+ base damage, maybe a broad axe of chopping or something). Not sure about the exact damage table.

Not in love with the TrWz, but you should obv try it if that's what floats your boat. I think Spriggan Enchanter and Merfolk Crusader are the best choices for hybrids, tho--enchantments are generally a better complement than conjurations. Wizard hybrids would spread skills very thin and not have the spell power(highly skill dependent) to make throw flame, confuse, etc effective.
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Old 05-19-2009, 10:06 PM   #141
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Re: Any NetHack players?

Unarmed at high skill is highly powerful. You would never need to switch. Most unarmed combat people go for blade hands (a transmutation spell, which is why transmuters are the unarmed fighter/caster hybrid). Blade Hands makes unarmed combat basically the best weapon in the game. The draw back is you lose out on the possibility of resistances from a RandArt, but must people end up with a +9 vorpal broad axe int he end game anyway so it doesn't matter. As a troll you have claws, which are a +5 base damage adjustment to unarmed combat, but unless you invest heavily into magic skills you won't be able to use Blade Hands.

Also characters that don't start with spell casting cast can learn it by reading scrolls while they have EXP in their pool, this will depend on your aptitude in spellcasting for how many scrolls it takes.
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Old 05-19-2009, 10:59 PM   #142
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Re: Any NetHack players?

Jesus, Deep Elf Wizards are terrible. If you get poisoned, just hit Ctrl-Q and save some time.
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Old 05-20-2009, 02:07 PM   #143
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Re: Any NetHack players?

It's probably too early for me to say (especially as I haven't won yet), but Crawl seems to be balanced in a weird way where things are generally quite easy or brutally hard and not much in between. For example, being a caster in the early game just seems really painful unless you are one of the races with extra speed or you know Mephitic Cloud, in which case most things become pretty trivial.
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Old 05-21-2009, 06:00 AM   #144
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Re: Any NetHack players?

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For example, being a caster in the early game just seems really painful unless you are one of the races with extra speed or you know Mephitic Cloud, in which case most things become pretty trivial.
I dunno, with a pure conjurer type with a decent casting race in the early game isn't bad at all. Having a respectable ranged attack keeps you out of many untenable situations. The classes that have it really tough are reavers, transmuters, most crusaders(merfolk are okay because of the early trident's power) that have problems dealing damage early on.
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Old 05-21-2009, 10:41 AM   #145
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Re: Any NetHack players?

so now Im really in love wit dungeon crawl,
I like the tile version way better because it has an onscreen map etc..
you are right, food isn an issue at all..

I play a mountain dwarf fighter and take trog as religion is that cool?

made it to the orc mines 3 times but always get killed..
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Old 05-22-2009, 10:27 PM   #146
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Re: Any NetHack players?

FYI, you can start with Trog (Berserker) instead of waiting till temple.

Orc mines should probably be skipped until you've tried the Lair. You can try to dip in there for a decent axe (war axe, broad axe, battle axe) if you're stuck with your original hand axe, but clear out if it gets hairy.
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Old 05-24-2009, 07:54 AM   #147
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Re: Any NetHack players?

Alright, trying Crawl in the next few days. We'll see how it goes...
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Old 05-24-2009, 04:26 PM   #148
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Re: Any NetHack players?

Trying a hill orc priest. The first orc I came across hit me, bastard! How do I get him to join? Nothing in 'a'.
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Old 05-25-2009, 02:42 AM   #149
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Re: Any NetHack players?

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Trying a hill orc priest. The first orc I came across hit me, bastard! How do I get him to join? Nothing in 'a'.
They join automatically when your piety is high enough. IIRC, beat him to within an inch of his life and he'll be more receptive to your message.
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Old 07-16-2009, 06:15 PM   #150
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Re: Any NetHack players?

Bump. Anyone playing in the August Crawl Tournament (crawl.akrasiac.org)? I just started playing again after a year or so layoff in prep for the tourney and am doing well w/ 3 wins in 3 games.
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