Dude, you are not understanding. You cannot put a chimp in a "suibmissive hold" because it would quite literally simply pull you apart limb from limb.

The thickness of an animal's skull has relatively little to do with its proclivity to getting knocked out. When a person gets knocked unconscious it is because of an intense whipping force that causes their brain to bump against their skull. This is the reason that it is much more dangerous for a fighter to get punched in the chin than on the side of the head: it is the whiplash effect that causes someone to get knocked out. The thickness of one's skull is not variable in the equation. Having a really strong neck is actually the best defense against getting knocked out.

What a coincidence, chimps have small brains and very strong necks.

The head of a chimp is twice as massive as a human being's, the braincase is wrapped entirely in muscular padding, and a chimp's neck is not only larger than a human being's, it is much less vulnerable, better anchored, and stronger.

Give it up. Human beings have been bred for millions of years to do things with our brains, not our muscles. Our musculature has been sexually selected to look good to the opposite sex, not to be able to fight wild animals and win. The average chimpanzee could rip the strongest, most highly trained human martial artists limb from limb, unless, as David said, the chimp didn't see it coming and the human knew some secret chimp-disabling strike. Even with a windpipe-crushing blow to the throat. I think the chimp would turn you into a pile of bloody limbs before it died.

I think you are grossly exaggerating how strong a chimp is / how easy it is to rip someones limbs off. Most of the estimates of chimp strength that I can find indicate that chimps are about 5 times stronger than the AVERAGE human. But there many humans like the World's Strongest Man competitors who are also about 5 times stronger than the average human. So would they automatically be able to beat fighters by ripping off their limbs? Another problem with all of the claims about chimp strength that I have seen is that they are rarely backed up by any kind of hard evidence and instead seem to be mere off the cuff estimates by zoologists, which are likely prone to exaggeration.

I guarantee that if you had put those green berets from your story in a ring with the 350 lb guy from the video I posted, the results would have been just as quick and embarassing. Yet that guy does not just rip his opponents limbs off at will.

And even if a chimp is capaable of ripping off somebody's limbs, it would not be able to do that from just any position. Its not like the fighter is just going to stick his arm out and let the chimp rip it off.

Ferocity of chimpanzee attack stuns medics, leaves questions
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articl...aves_questions/

Money Quote: "Male chimps usually stand about 4 feet tall and weigh between 90 and 120 pounds, specialists say. They are strong and aggressive animals who routinely kill and devour much larger animals in the wild. Their upper body strength is said to be five to 10 times that of the average human.

Carruthers shot Ollie, but the shot had no apparent effect. He reloaded the gun with more powerful, fully jacketed, ammunition, this time turning on the first chimp, Buddy."

This is completely not true. The chimp can't get any leverage or angle to use it's strength in most of these moves. If put in a rear naked choke, what is it going to do? The chimp can't just reach behind it's head at a crazy angle and pull you off using only his arm strength. It's legs are worthless in this position. It has nothing to bite. It will frantically squirm and pass out a few seconds later.

The whole point of most of these moves is that the opponent can't do anything useful with all that strength they have.

The ability to get into one of these moves may be a different story.

What if the fight was between the chimp and a martial arts master that was fluent in monkey style kung fu?

I brought up the dog example but I mostly specified closer to a 100-lb. dog--a good bit larger than your typical shepherd. Also, the dog you fought off may not have been expecting resistance, so that scenario is a good ways off from an intent of fighting to the death. The shepherd probably saw you running which triggered its pursuit instinct, and its temperament or territorial instinct may have led it to bite at you. When you resisted violently the dog was probably taken by surprise and in no mood for a real fight. I'm not saying you or a UFCer *couldn't* beat a 100-lb. dog but if the dog was equally trying to kill you and it was a serious type of dog (very large shepherd at minimum) I'd still probably bet on the dog. Of course I could be wrong, and at any rate I do agree that the chimp would be more of a lock than the dog, for sure.

249/1 for the chimp.
Chimp would win very easily.

His reach advantage is enormous because it can jump from quite a long distance to the UFC fighter.

In close combat the chimp has the advantage of stronger arms, ability to claw with feet and much better biting ( if that is allowed )

The fighters would never be long enough at a striking/boxing distance for the human to have any decent chance to knock out the chimp.

and the chimp could literally, pick up and throw a full grown man.

So what? Any decently strong full grown man can pick up and throw another full grown man.

People need to stop posting poitntless stuff like this and acting like it is dispositive.

Good point.



Your talking out of your ass here, you have absolutely no clue about what a chimp can and cannot do.

Yeah, and the people who are so confident that chimps can rip off limbs at will are experts on the subject????

Given: a 100-lb. chimp is 5-10 times stronger than a human.

Therefore: it doesn't need the kind of leverage you are thinking of to rip your grip off it's neck. It might need that leverage to get you off its back but that is another matter.

Think of it this way: a five-year old has you in a choke hold, and for some peculiar reason of leverage you can't get him off you. Maybe you are caught in an elevator door or under a beam or something. You still *can* rip his grip off your neck and stop the choking effect, simply because your arm strength is so many times stronger.

To maintain a choke hold you must be able to maintain the force that closes it. If the opposing force is enough, you just can't do that; your grip will give out. Sure you can get leverage advantages, and it is harder to separate a grip than to apply a grip. But with enough force pulling your grip apart, your grip *must* give way. Sure locking your hands or fingers together gives you added resistance to separation but not as much as you are thinking. Not 7-1.

The reason these work in jujitsu is because the strength differential is not so overwhelming and because the person getting choked has to keep striving against it and if one can't escape eventually it wears one down. But that presumes that the opponent isn't strong enough to easily pry your arms or hands apart. Both fighters tire during lengthy choke encounters. But somehow I doubt it would be very tiring to the chimp--after all, a one-hand pullup is nothing to a chimp, they swing one handed from trees all day long--can any UFCers even do a single true 1-hand pullup (not with the other arm "assisting")?

And as Borodog says, maybe the chimp is strong enough to simply rip your arm right out of its socket, or snap the bone with a might pull. At 5-10 times human strength, that could well be the case. Do you think you could hold onto something with 800 pounds of pressure pulling the other way? Heck even the strongest men in the world can't hold onto that bar over the water for more than a minute or so, just versus their own body weight. And that is using two hands fully.

Who is going to tell the chimp he can't bite?

By the way, when is this fantastic battle to the death?

Can we get PETA involved so they can get all worried about the chimp's rights and when the chimp kills the guy in short order without breaking a sweat they will get confused.

In short, yes, I think a thousand+ pounds of force would tear my arm right off.

And if you think any man could beat a wild animal like a full grown chimp with his bare hands, then you're [censored] nuts.

There are many humans capable of producing greater than 1,000 pounds of force, yet I have never seen a human come close to ripping someone's arm off with the ease that you imply.

I think there are many wild animals that a human could not kill with his bare hands, but I think some humans would at least have a chance against the chimp.

Also, I'm not saying that an elite MMA fighter would be the favorite against a chimp. All I'm saying is that the chimp would not be a lock (ie >100:1).

I don't think it is that unreasonable to think that an elite human, at least 1% of the time, could capitalize on a mistake by a chimp, who would likely would have no clue what is going on. You could probably motivate the chimp by starving him or convincing him that the human is threatening his young. But the chimp, at least some of the time, would probably be confused for the first few seconds of the fight and leave himself open to getting stunned by the human or giving up a really bad position.

I'd love to see this happen and bet on it with you at whatever ridiculous odds you are willing to offer (from the tone of you posts it sound like you are handicapping this at at least the 10,000-100,000:1 range), but obviously that will never happen.

Mr. Sklansky:

Now I see why you need a forum, there are some strange things mulling around inside that head of yours.

Anyway, LOL at the people thinking even the most proficient MMA practitioner stood any chance whatsoever against the chimp. Try to choke a monkey, like another poster mentioned, and if he/she/it doesn’t rip your arm right out of its socket, you’re head will likely be torn off.

Even if you immobilized the chimps arms in your choke it could reach its feet back and rip your head off.

Lol if you think it is easy to reach back and rip someone's head off when they are doing this to you:



You clearly have no idea how little leverage some has when they are trapped in a rear naked choke. A properly applied choke makes the other person's legs and arms essentially useless. Moreover, the person only has a couple of seconds before losing consciousness.

The chimps arms and legs would be in no position to do anything, no matter how strong it is. Whether or not the chimp would actually end up in that position is a legitimate question, but to say that it could reach back with its LEGS and rip the fighter's head off shows how ignorant you are.

do you think the original poster wanted to know how often an MMA fighter could walk up to a chimp and gouge out its eye before the chimp knew what it was doing? or do you think the OP wanted to know how the fighting ability of a professional fighter would stack up to the fighting ability of a chimp?

Youtube video of a chimp from a group getting a bit annoyed with some guys feeding them.

I certainly wouldn't want to get involved in a scrap with one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5vE3VQdLa4

Lol. Chimps aren't people. His reach is twice what a human's is, not to mention the fact that he can simply roll into a ball and grip the choke arm with all four limbs (you know, the ones that exert a pull of a thousand pounds apiece) and pry you loose.

You're just being ridiculous.

The latter. But in any fight between a chimp and a human, the chimp will be handicapped by its lack of awareness about what is going on. The fighter will know that its goal is to kill the chimp and will probably be able to make the first move, whereas the chimp will probably be forced to rely on instinct and react to the human attacking it.

The OP was a little vague about how much training the chimp would receive before the fight. If the chimp underwent extensive training that effectively taught the chimp what its objective was, then I think this handicap would be minimized. But my reading of the question was that the chimp would not receive any training and would essentially juts be thrown into an enclosed space with the human.

First off Pal, you really should learn to respond to threads without feeling the need to attack people that disagree with you.

Second, keep in mind you're talking about applying a technique that's proven effective on a human and assuming it's going to work on a chimp.