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Old 01-03-2011, 01:23 AM   #91
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Re: ***uNL Quick Checkup Thread***

Quote:
Originally Posted by wackybrak View Post
villain running 28vpip/25pfr in EP.

still NEC?
Give relevant stats next time.
Just cause someone plays super loose, does not mean you can get in JJ vs them profitably because they'll be folding a lot. But I guess you're getting it in now.

tits: QQ: I go 2.5[3.3], 6.5[8.3], 17[21.3]
24o: I don't think I'm folding turn. River's good that we chop with some 2x now I guess... Can't see him betting worse for value though.

loldonk: Depends on reads,flop cbet raise%,fold to cbet%,WWSF. Sucks that we're holding the As. Vs some people, this is such a fist pump because they always slowplay the flop with anything decent. I prefer flatting flop though.

Last edited by z0mgtiltz; 01-03-2011 at 01:29 AM.
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Old 01-03-2011, 01:26 AM   #92
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Re: ***uNL Quick Checkup Thread***

donkaments, Its bad against some people and great against others. Dont think he raises 44 here a whole lot so you are basically looking at FD's, 7x and some random "i dont believe that you dont believe that I dont cannot have pear, trips, here, FU" kinda stuff.

But if thats the case you might just want to call.

And some people just never raise flops, so...
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Old 01-03-2011, 01:29 AM   #93
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Re: ***uNL Quick Checkup Thread***

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Originally Posted by (.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.) View Post
Ongame Network $20.00 No Limit Hold'em

BTN: $20.73 - VPIP: 21, PFR: 19, 3B: 0, AF: 0.7, Hands: 47
SB: $8.40 - VPIP: 26, PFR: 9, 3B: 2, AF: 1.4, Hands: 112
Hero (BB): $22.09 - VPIP: 24, PFR: 21, 3B: 5, AF: 4.7, Hands: 113417
UTG: $20.76 - VPIP: 19, PFR: 16, 3B: 6, AF: 1.2, Hands: 396
CO: $20.00 - VPIP: 50, PFR: 21, 3B: 0, AF: 4.3, Hands: 14

CO posts a big blind ($0.20)

Pre Flop: ($0.50) Hero is BB with 2 4
1 fold, CO checks, 2 folds, Hero checks

Flop: ($0.50) 2 2 T (2 players)
Hero bets $0.50, CO calls $0.50

Turn: ($1.50) 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.50, CO raises to $3, Hero calls $1.50

River: ($7.50) K (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $7.50, Hero calls $7.50

Standard? Or fold somewhere?
I would fold river... you only beat a missed heart draw, and i don't think I've ever seen a loose fish minraise turn pot river with a draw.

unless you have betsizing tell... but normally, minraise from fish on nutted boards especially on the turn is pretty strong.
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Old 01-03-2011, 01:34 AM   #94
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Re: ***uNL Quick Checkup Thread***

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Originally Posted by (.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.) View Post
Ongame Network $20.00 No Limit Hold'em

BTN: $73.59 - VPIP: 24, PFR: 10, 3B: 0, AF: 1.5, Hands: 145
SB: $48.76 - VPIP: 23, PFR: 13, 3B: 5, AF: 2.9, Hands: 515
Hero (BB): $62.22 - VPIP: 24, PFR: 21, 3B: 5, AF: 4.7, Hands: 113417
UTG: $5.00 - VPIP: 28, PFR: 0, 3B: 0, AF: 0.5, Hands: 18
CO: $72.03 - VPIP: 50, PFR: 3, 3B: 4, AF: 2.1, Hands: 145

Pre Flop: ($0.30) Hero is BB with Q Q
UTG calls $0.20, CO calls $0.20, BTN calls $0.20, 1 fold, Hero raises to $1, UTG calls $0.80, CO calls $0.80, 1 fold

Flop: ($3.30) 2 5 J (3 players)
Hero bets $3.00, UTG folds, CO calls $3

Turn: ($9.30) 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $6.00, CO calls $6

River: ($21.30) 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $14.00

300bb deep vs fish.

Comments on betsizing?
def bigger turn and river, hes not folding a jack and hes not calling a worst pair.
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Old 01-03-2011, 01:34 AM   #95
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Re: ***uNL Quick Checkup Thread***

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loldonk: Depends on reads,flop cbet raise%,fold to cbet%,WWSF. Sucks that we're holding the As. Vs some people, this is such a fist pump because they always slowplay the flop with anything decent. I prefer flatting flop though.
How do you incorperate WWSF into that decision? And does fCB% influence raiseCB% in any way?

I just look at cbet raise % in that spot and end up calling down when its too high.
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Old 01-03-2011, 01:38 AM   #96
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Re: ***uNL Quick Checkup Thread***

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How do you incorperate WWSF into that decision? And does fCB% influence raiseCB% in any way?

I just look at cbet raise % in that spot and end up calling down when its too high.
cbet raise % takes a while to converge obviously, so you'll need a pretty big hand sample to rely on this stat.

I would assume WWSF indicates the aggressiveness of the player, if it's 45%+ then villain is raising/taking aggressive lines a lot and is apt to be raissing flush draws/OESDs as semibluffs. Whereas if WWSF was below 40%, villain is pretty nitty and folds a ton and doesn't really fight for pots, so when he raises he has it.

177 hand sample on villain in my hand, his raise cbet % is 14% (1/7, so this is completely useless because when he raised cbet in the hand above, it was his first time), WWSF was 56% over 25 flops seen though.
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Old 01-03-2011, 01:38 AM   #97
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Re: ***uNL Quick Checkup Thread***

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I would fold river... you only beat a missed heart draw, and i don't think I've ever seen a loose fish minraise turn pot river with a draw.

unless you have betsizing tell... but normally, minraise from fish on nutted boards especially on the turn is pretty strong.
Yeah, but 14 hands, just have trouble reading those erratic Ongame fish in spots like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by donnyz89 View Post
def bigger turn and river, hes not folding a jack and hes not calling a worst pair.
Yeah, well... He called river with 7d8d. Thought that was in the hand I posted. I just get scured when I have to put in a lot more then 100bb with one pair, even against a fish.
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Old 01-03-2011, 01:41 AM   #98
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Re: ***uNL Quick Checkup Thread***

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cbet raise % takes a while to converge obviously, so you'll need a pretty big hand sample to rely on this stat.

I would assume WWSF indicates the aggressiveness of the player, if it's 45%+ then villain is raising/taking aggressive lines a lot and is apt to be raissing flush draws/OESDs as semibluffs. Whereas if WWSF was below 40%, villain is pretty nitty and folds a ton and doesn't really fight for pots, so when he raises he has it.
All those stats obv need a decent samplesize.

But i'd like to know when, for instance, his WWSF is really high, he can still have a low raise flop%?

Cuz I try to hudbot as little as possible but also dont want to miss any of the important info obv.
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Old 01-03-2011, 01:44 AM   #99
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Re: ***uNL Quick Checkup Thread***

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All those stats obv need a decent samplesize.

But i'd like to know when, for instance, his WWSF is really high, he can still have a low raise flop%?

Cuz I try to hudbot as little as possible but also dont want to miss any of the important info obv.
WWSF converges pretty quickly though because obviously people see flops a lot

If WWSF is high it could mean he's playing only premium hands when he goes postflop, or that he is aggressive (raising a lot so never really going to showdown) and can vbet relentlessly and thinly.

So yeah if his WWSF is high, his raise flop % can still be low because he could be raising on later streets, valuebetting thinly, or maybe is just a plain old nit that folds almost every hand preflop.
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Old 01-03-2011, 01:55 AM   #100
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Re: ***uNL Quick Checkup Thread***

WWSF is just a measure of how much a person fights postflop for a pot
Just a general idea as a guide, don't take these literally:

<40% WWSF = I will give up whenever they show aggression until further reads
40-45% WWSF = these are what weak-tight regulars can run at (and even good regulars over small samples) and just fire once and give up
45-50% WWSF = pretty standard decent tag, double barrels somewhat, won't fire the 3rd one often
50-55% WWSF = super aggro regs/aggro fish, barrels a lot of equity, and triple barrels air sometimes
55%+ = never folding a half decent hand to them cause they're probably a huge aggro fish (no one really runs 55%+ WWSF over a decent sample. if they did they'd go busto/be exploited so fast)

WWSF takes a while to converge cause obv, people can run hot. But it doesn't really take long to notice which guys are the ones that are bluffraising everywhere.

For flopcbet raise% vs fold to cbet, I'm just kind of trying to get an idea of how often they're folding,flatting,raising and so I can understand what kind of ranges they'll flat. Anyone with a raise cbet of over 15% makes me suspicious and I'll start noting what board textures they're attacking.
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Old 01-03-2011, 01:58 AM   #101
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Re: ***uNL Quick Checkup Thread***

Poker Stars $25.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

BTN: $29.77
SB: $25.00
Hero (BB): $29.48
UTG: $25.89
MP: $29.68
CO: $63.44

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BB with A A
UTG raises to $1, 1 fold, CO calls $1, BTN calls $1, SB calls $0.90, Hero raises to $4.50, UTG calls $3.50, CO calls $3.50, BTN calls $3.50, SB calls $3.50

Flop: ($22.50) 6 J 7 (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $24.98
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Old 01-03-2011, 02:01 AM   #102
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Re: ***uNL Quick Checkup Thread***

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0mgtiltz View Post
WWSF takes a while to converge cause obv, people can run hot. But it doesn't really take long to notice which guys are the ones that are bluffraising everywhere.
How many samples do you think it would take before you would consider the stat quite accurate?
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Old 01-03-2011, 02:07 AM   #103
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Re: ***uNL Quick Checkup Thread***

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Originally Posted by LOLdonkaments. View Post
How many samples do you think it would take before you would consider the stat quite accurate?
I guess I don't really pay attention to it for multitabling regulars unless I have 1k+ hands? I always prefer reads over stats for those guys, cause HUD stats only give an incomplete picture of their ranges.

I'll look at it for a fish straight away though, cause it's easier to see how many pots a fish has tried to fight for postflop that way rather than trying to keep track of gameflow when you're playing 8+ tables.. i.e. if he's playing 60/12 vp/pfr and he's won 62% of pots when he saw the flop, there is obv something fishy going on there. Sure, it won't let me understand their hand ranges, but their hand ranges are so wide in the first place. What it does tell me is that I need to make a top pair and pretty much never let go lol.
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Old 01-03-2011, 02:09 AM   #104
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Re: ***uNL Quick Checkup Thread***

Thanks z0mg!

Ksight, standard.
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Old 01-03-2011, 03:57 AM   #105
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Re: ***uNL Quick Checkup Thread***

Villian is 28/22 over 147 hands. Been pretty straight forward. Pretty sure he out boated me but just like to hear what good poker players think about my fold. Thanks.

Full Tilt Poker $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em - 3 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

Hero (BTN): $3.99
SB: $2.01
BB: $2.07

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is BTN with J J
Hero raises to $0.08, 1 fold, BB calls $0.06

Flop: ($0.17) T K J (2 players)
BB bets $0.10, Hero calls $0.10

Turn: ($0.37) T (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.24, BB calls $0.24

River: ($0.85) K (2 players)
BB bets $0.39, Hero folds
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