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Micro Stakes PL/NL Discussions regarding micro stakes pot and no-limit hold'em (25c-50c and below)

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Old 06-27-2008, 01:17 PM   #76
T-Bird
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

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Originally Posted by RedJoker View Post
SB opening range depends on the player in the BB, something like CO tight range would probably be a minimum but if the player is very tight then we can go up to BTN wide range.
And what range from the BB w/limpers in position?

I always had the impression that if just the SB completes you know you have position so you can raise like you're the BTN, is this incorrect?
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Old 06-27-2008, 02:21 PM   #77
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

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And what range from the BB w/limpers in position?

I always had the impression that if just the SB completes you know you have position so you can raise like you're the BTN, is this incorrect?
Well I was going through opening ranges so BB didn't really apply .

If the SB completes you can go wild, anything pretty can be bumped up. A BTN range would be pretty good guide. I'll sometimes check my weaker hands but take lots of stabs if checked to on the flop as well as bluff raising sometimes if I'm led into. The smaller the stakes the more inclined to raise you should be because, with the rake being so high, taking down the pot preflop is even more important.

If there's limper(s) from UTG to BTN then it'll depend a little on the players but a tight range would be something like 99+, AQ+ but you could branch out to something like KQ+, AJ+, 77+ and maybe something like KJs if you wanted to. You could include something like 54s - 89s if you wanted to add a little deception but it's usually not important. I'd have a roughly similar range for raising limpers from the SB as well. It's really just isolating OOP. You want to have a pretty tight range because playing OOP sucks and you have a guaranteed option of seeing a flop (when in the BB).
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Old 06-27-2008, 03:16 PM   #78
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

mcpoka:

Sample size is a bit too small but here are a few pointers:

- If you feel uncomfortable about your postflop game, I suggest you tighten it up a little. Your VPIP of 22 is fairly loose.

- You're playing ultratight UTG and UTG+1 (VPIP ~10) Review some of your biggest losing hands from those positions. Are you having a hard time folding TPTK/big PP's? Are you felting those hands too often?

- You're playing way too loose from the button. Tighten up a bit. Perhaps you're stealing a bit too much. People will pick up on this and 3bet you more often.

In general, your VPIP should be higher in later positions:

UTG ~ 15/15
UTG+1 ~17/16
CO ~22/20
BTN ~26/23

- You're playing too many hands in the BB. This is a leak. You lose 0.33 bb/100 from the BB. Don't play marginal suited hands because your opponent raised on the button.

- You're not Cbetting enough flops. Your CBet Flop should be ~70. Pretty much C-bet all the time HU. In multiway pots, floptexture matters a lot. If you raise 99 UTG+1 and the board comes KJ2 with 2 hearts, don't bother cbetting. There are just too many hands in both of your opponents range that cbetting here is not profitable.
I suggest you search the forums for "board texture" to find some good posts about this subject.

- Your turn AF is a lot lower than your river AF. This could be because of sample size or this could be a leak. Play more hands first.
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Old 06-27-2008, 03:48 PM   #79
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

Any advice on these stats is appreciated, especially any comments on my showdown winnings. I think this is way too swingy and the difference between my SD winnings vs. NON-SD winnings seems weird.

This is NL10 (32k hands) and NL25 (18k hands) combined.





Positions stats for NL10 and NL25 combined:




These are all NL10:



Position stats for NL10:




These are all NL25

This graph actually makes me puke and any advice is appreciated. I feel like my game is "stuck" and I'm having a hard time finding ways to 'improve' even though I know my game is leaking at NL25.



Position stats for NL25:




Thank you in advance
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Old 06-27-2008, 04:28 PM   #80
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

Thanks for your reply fussie.
- The reason why Im playing so tight from UTG (+1) is that I dont want get called from 2 opponents (which happens often) while holding a marginal hand. So I dont want to get into some tricky spots oop.
- Because of the calling stations Im also avoiding to cbet too much because: I bet, second barrel,get called with crap hands and lose by the end of hand very often. But Ill take your advice and look for some posts on board texture.
- Regarding my bb play youre right: Im calling too much with marginal connectors.
- My AF on the river could be really a leak as Im trying too much to get them off their hand which really isnt successful strategy at NL10 even when they are holding low pair.
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Old 06-27-2008, 07:52 PM   #81
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

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Originally Posted by Pokey View Post
AceofSpades:

Holy smokes are you aggro on the button. 34/31? Really?? Attempting to steal the blinds is great and all, but 40% of the time seems a bit on the high side. I'd probably scale back a bit. Not MUCH, mind you, but a BIT. You have had some really good showings from the button so far, but I can't help but think some of that is variance. Maybe at $25NL you can get away with this kind of play, however....
nah

this may be a little too aggro on the button (almost all 50nl with a little 50pl):



i think people severely underestimate how much you can run people over at micro stakes. you should watch mdm13's 50nl lag video if you haven't. i play 28/24 which is pretty crazy for 50nl but a 22/18 should be opening at least 30% of their buttons imo.
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Old 06-27-2008, 08:13 PM   #82
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

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Originally Posted by Phildo View Post
nah

this may be a little too aggro on the button (almost all 50nl with a little 50pl):



i think people severely underestimate how much you can run people over at micro stakes. you should watch mdm13's 50nl lag video if you haven't. i play 28/24 which is pretty crazy for 50nl but a 22/18 should be opening at least 30% of their buttons imo.
Nice stats, stop posting from the CO though.
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Old 06-27-2008, 08:39 PM   #83
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

never
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Old 06-27-2008, 08:44 PM   #84
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

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never
It says you posted $77.25 from the CO?
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Old 06-27-2008, 08:45 PM   #85
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

i meant i'd never stop posting from the co.
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Old 06-28-2008, 10:53 AM   #86
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

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Hi,

I've been playing 20nl through 100nl on Betfair since may. I am showing profit but i fail at something terribly. I can't seem to get steady showdown winnings. Maybe its something that can be analised from my stats, im not sure. But here you go:





Any out of the ordinary ? Maybe its not visible rightaway , but here are some graphicals to emphasize what i mean. I also posted them in uBBV but i think they belong here better.



0-19k = 20nl
20k+ = 50/100nl

oyeah and there is a - 1.25bi of 200nl in there somewhere ( tilt )

QFBump. Anyone seeing something i could change?
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Old 06-28-2008, 11:01 AM   #87
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

Something Pokey said in another response made me think my graph is telling me I need to improve my post flop play. Does the fact that my non-showdown losses mean I am going to far in pots and folding.
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Old 06-28-2008, 11:06 AM   #88
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

Jep, mainly against me LDO! But also, showdownwinnings visa versa
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Old 06-28-2008, 08:55 PM   #89
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

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Hey all, these are my stats for this month , would love to hear suggestions / comments




Also, i posted the following thread before noticing this thread:

I looked on my NL50 PokerEV graph for this month (its not pretty, tilt and stupidity are killing me) and noticed that over my sample of about 25k , i have been losing about 680$ / big bets , which is 2.7 ptbb / 100 . Now if i got it right, this includes all the blinds / hands where i didnt VPIP'd.
Pokertracker is telling me i was required to post a total of 3600 $ / ptbb

I play about 20/16 on NL50 6max, when i add a "Action preflop is raise / call" filter on pokerEV it tells me i have been winning 41 BB / 100 in total winnings, that includes 19.1 BB / 100 for showdown winnings and 21.7BB / 100 in non-showdown, which is 1266$ over the 5644 filtered hands.

Is it possible to draw any conclusions from these stats .. Is it "acceptable" to lose a few BB per 100 on folding blinds, and if so , how do my stats compare?

Also, how reliable can PokerEV indicate running bad? I have been down 15 buyins over 50k+ hands of NL50 6-max and my SB line has never had a very signifacnt downswing .. however it seems that during the few bumps i had , the divergence got bigger when i lost the pots putting my money in bad while i lost on a few suckouts on my upswings , which made the divergence grow more again. Now i realize it can't treat the aspects of luck like getting action with aces or running with KK into AA , but.. i understand this is a fairly large sample , also a period where i changed my game more than once - is it likely to happen if its just being plain unlucky in the "short" run (3 months and lifetilt) , or is it possible that this apparent difference got compensated by my non-showdown winnings (basically, i draw out, i bet , they fold, and PokerEV wont count it as showdown hand and wont calculate EV ) ?

Any good way for me to analyze this a bit more with PT / PokerEV


Thanks for reading
bump

this might have been missed because it was right before RedJoker's and Pokey's epic discussion, could anyone check my stats plz?
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Old 06-29-2008, 01:03 AM   #90
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**



Hi guys, would like some feedback on my stats please. Hope the image isn't too small.

I believe my winrate is better than this, but I went through a crazy 10 BI downswing during these hands (3 sets beaten by runner runner flush, AA/KK cracked by smaller pairs when the money went in preflop etc).

Last edited by Gorvacofin; 06-29-2008 at 01:09 AM.
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Old 06-29-2008, 11:32 AM   #91
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

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Originally Posted by Gorvacofin View Post


Hi guys, would like some feedback on my stats please. Hope the image isn't too small.

I believe my winrate is better than this, but I went through a crazy 10 BI downswing during these hands (3 sets beaten by runner runner flush, AA/KK cracked by smaller pairs when the money went in preflop etc).
Bump
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Old 06-29-2008, 11:37 AM   #92
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

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Can you provide more detailed stats?

It looks to me like you have a decent VPIP, but a relatively low PFR. I'm not 100% positive, but going to SD 27% of the time sounds like you might be a *little bit loose on the river.

Post your PT3 graph that shows your won@SD vs won without SD values.

Also, try and read through all of the stuff in this thread. There has been some great information provided.
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Old 06-29-2008, 01:05 PM   #93
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

RedPoker, slightly off-topic, again but I'm going to be trying to open up my style a bit more to be a bit wider when the table is tight and from the CO/BTN. I will be withdrawing my roll, as I need it and depositing on PStars $10 gonna grind from NL2. I know it's only 5BIs, bad bankroll management, but any advice other than that to help me along with what I'm trying to do. Play tighter as the general play down there is pretty poor or loosen up and isolate fish?

Any help would be appreciated.
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Old 06-29-2008, 01:11 PM   #94
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

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RedPoker, slightly off-topic, again but I'm going to be trying to open up my style a bit more to be a bit wider when the table is tight and from the CO/BTN. I will be withdrawing my roll, as I need it and depositing on PStars $10 gonna grind from NL2. I know it's only 5BIs, bad bankroll management, but any advice other than that to help me along with what I'm trying to do. Play tighter as the general play down there is pretty poor or loosen up and isolate fish?

Any help would be appreciated.
With 5 buy-ins I'd probably play pretty tight and pass up some of the smaller edges. You're going to have so many massive edges and you really need to play a low variance style to not bust 5 buy-ins so I'd probably avoid isolating light or anything like that. Set mine and go nuts with QQ+. It would probably be pretty boring but if you can't put in any more money then you don't have a lot of options.
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Old 06-29-2008, 06:44 PM   #95
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

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Originally Posted by RedJoker View Post
With 5 buy-ins I'd probably play pretty tight and pass up some of the smaller edges. You're going to have so many massive edges and you really need to play a low variance style to not bust 5 buy-ins so I'd probably avoid isolating light or anything like that. Set mine and go nuts with QQ+. It would probably be pretty boring but if you can't put in any more money then you don't have a lot of options.
Sounds like a plan. Will probably be posting my stats here soon after 10K or so if I don't go busto so we can reanalyse then. Hopefully down at NL2 it shouldn't be too hard to survive if I play tight.
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Old 06-29-2008, 06:46 PM   #96
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

possibly consider full ring if you need to set-mine to build a roll, till you get to 10 buyins or smthing
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Old 06-29-2008, 07:48 PM   #97
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

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Originally Posted by orig!naL View Post
Can you provide more detailed stats?

It looks to me like you have a decent VPIP, but a relatively low PFR. I'm not 100% positive, but going to SD 27% of the time sounds like you might be a *little bit loose on the river.

Post your PT3 graph that shows your won@SD vs won without SD values.

Also, try and read through all of the stuff in this thread. There has been some great information provided.


Thanks, here's the graph from my holdem manager. Wow, this freaked me out a bit... does this mean I'm being too spewy with bluffs/cbets?
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Old 06-30-2008, 02:21 AM   #98
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

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Thanks, here's the graph from my holdem manager. Wow, this freaked me out a bit... does this mean I'm being too spewy with bluffs/cbets?
I never used holdem manager, so you might not have this option but you could set a filter that says your action preflop was a raise or a call and check your non-showdown winnings there .. afaik your graph also includes all the blinds you posted , and i suppose its part of your playing style too .. i'd be curious to know how much is "acceptable" for a TAG to lose in non-showdown by folding blinds (in BB/100 or compared to showdown winnings) tho ..
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Old 06-30-2008, 08:07 AM   #99
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

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Thanks, here's the graph from my holdem manager. Wow, this freaked me out a bit... does this mean I'm being too spewy with bluffs/cbets?
No, it means exactly the opposite. It's not really a big deal though, as long as you're winning money then it's fine, it just means you have weak-tight tendencies.
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Old 06-30-2008, 09:33 PM   #100
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

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Bump
Your PFR is a little low. EP PFR (12/12) and MP PFR (15/13) are fine but you limp too much from the SB (26/10). Fold more marginal hands, raise more in blind battles and try to find good spots to squeeze.

Your 3bet stats could be a little higher too.

Pretty decent stats altogether though, congrats.
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