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Old 06-22-2008, 11:30 PM   #1
EMc
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***Official uNL Stats Checkup Thread***

Post your stats here for some analysis. Please follow these guidelines.


MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A SIGNIFCANT NUMBER OF HANDS. TRY NOT TO POST WITHOUT AT LEAST 10K IM THE SAMPLE
Dont post stats in here just to brag you had a good weekend. Use BBV or microbrew.
When posting your own stats try to look around the thread and see some posters stats who hasnt been looked at. Give and take here folks.
If this thread becomes a win rate,e-peen waving, pissing contest, ill lock it and that will be the end of that.

Please repost any of hte last few questions from the previous thread, as well as any other key posts.



EMc, Thac, Gelford, UdBrky and PJo336, Skraper and Verneer

Last edited by udbrky; 07-12-2014 at 10:40 PM.
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Old 06-23-2008, 12:23 AM   #2
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

First!
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Old 06-23-2008, 02:27 AM   #3
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

Hello 2p2ers,

This is my first stats post. Please forgive any n00b/donk statements. Any useful feedback is welcome.

The Stats

First impressions:
  • Sample size: Enough go be significant.
  • VPIP/PFR: Are approximately right.
  • SB/BB Steals: Folding too much, not attempting enough However, I'm a multi-tabler (usually 4) so blind-stealing and blind defence seem to be putting myself in marginal situations that I can't give my full attention to. Should I just force myself to learn blind stealing/defence well enough to do it on autopilot, or should I just forget about it since I play so many tables? What are good blind stealing/defence numbers for FT and UB 6m NL25 tables?
  • Win Rate: Decent, but much, much better after rakeback. Rakeback rocks. I feel like NL25 is crushable for 10+PTBB/100 and want to know how to get there.
  • Won $ WSF, Went to SD%: Don't know what to look for.
  • Won $ AT SD: ~50% seems fine to me.
  • Aggression Factors: Turn AF should be higher, maybe?
  • Position stats: I'm not too sure, but perhaps 17% (2% more than current) out of UTG+1 might be better. The rest seem ok, I think.

Not sure which other stats are key or what to think of it all, or if anything I've said above makes any sense.

I look forward to hearing what you have to say.

Thanks,

kablooey

PS: I tried to use the "Insert Image" function, but couldn't get it to work. I added the link instead. Let me know if it works for you... Or how to use the freggin' insert image function...
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Old 06-23-2008, 06:45 AM   #4
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

Quote:
Originally Posted by kablooey View Post
Hello 2p2ers,

This is my first stats post. Please forgive any n00b/donk statements. Any useful feedback is welcome.


First impressions:
  • Sample size: Enough go be significant.
  • VPIP/PFR: Are approximately right.
  • SB/BB Steals: Folding too much, not attempting enough However, I'm a multi-tabler (usually 4) so blind-stealing and blind defence seem to be putting myself in marginal situations that I can't give my full attention to. Should I just force myself to learn blind stealing/defence well enough to do it on autopilot, or should I just forget about it since I play so many tables? What are good blind stealing/defence numbers for FT and UB 6m NL25 tables?
  • Win Rate: Decent, but much, much better after rakeback. Rakeback rocks. I feel like NL25 is crushable for 10+PTBB/100 and want to know how to get there.
  • Won $ WSF, Went to SD%: Don't know what to look for.
  • Won $ AT SD: ~50% seems fine to me.
  • Aggression Factors: Turn AF should be higher, maybe?
  • Position stats: I'm not too sure, but perhaps 17% (2% more than current) out of UTG+1 might be better. The rest seem ok, I think.

Not sure which other stats are key or what to think of it all, or if anything I've said above makes any sense.

I look forward to hearing what you have to say.

Thanks,

kablooey

PS: I tried to use the "Insert Image" function, but couldn't get it to work. I added the link instead. Let me know if it works for you... Or how to use the freggin' insert image function...
Stats are fine, WRG blind situations. Screw defending your blinds, looking to play more hands OOP is not a good way to improve your winrate. Stealing more on the other hand is where it's at, if you feel like 4 tables is too much to focus, cut down and start open-raising more from the CO/BTN. Look for tight blinds and/or passive players in the blinds and raise that **** up.

Also start iso-raising limpers w/ hands you'd otherwise consider too weak to play. Do this at a level below your normal level if need be, but get a lot of hands in where you're playing weaker hands than normally as this will help your winrate a lot.

Oh yeah, and in general: don't get too caught up w/ looking at stats -- as long as you're winning f em.
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Old 06-23-2008, 08:26 AM   #5
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

If you want to crush NL25, here are my suggestions:

- if the players to your left are tight, open ATC. And don't get scared when you get called, you should cbet and 2nd barrel almost always as they call mostly with pocket pairs. Instafold if you get raised though, unless until you get good enough at hand reading to understand when you can make them lay down.

- against the fish, any two high cards (by "high" I mean 8 or higher) are good IP. Isolate them, cbet and 2nd barrel. You'd be surprised how many times they call the flop and fold the turn, and if you get any piece of the flop it's very probable it will be good at showdown.

- 3bet light the regs. Squeeze them. Attack the dead money restlessly.

I started playing like this 10 days ago when I was at NL10 and now I'm rolled for NL50, approx. 15k hands. It's wildly profitable.

My stats were very similar to yours before, now I'm running at 38/35/6.5 with a winrate of 17 BB/100.
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Old 06-23-2008, 10:42 AM   #6
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllIn3High View Post
...Stealing more on the other hand is where it's at... Look for tight blinds and/or passive players in the blinds and raise that **** up.

Also start iso-raising limpers w/ hands you'd otherwise consider too weak to play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdrubale View Post
If you want to crush NL25, here are my suggestions:

- if the players to your left are tight, open ATC... cbet and 2nd barrel almost always

- against the fish, any two high cards (by "high" I mean 8 or higher) are good IP. Isolate them, cbet and 2nd barrel. You'd be surprised how many times they call the flop and fold the turn...

- 3bet light the regs. Squeeze them. Attack the dead money restlessly.
Interesting.

So both of you think that the best thing for me to do right now is to play more LAG? Cool.
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Old 06-23-2008, 10:45 AM   #7
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdrubale View Post
... I started playing like this 10 days ago when I was at NL10 and now I'm rolled for NL50, approx. 15k hands. It's wildly profitable.

My stats were very similar to yours before, now I'm running at 38/35/6.5 with a winrate of 17 BB/100.
Wow, that's unbelievable. Good for you.
Are you sure you're not just running hot, though? And which sites do you play at?
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Old 06-23-2008, 12:02 PM   #8
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

I'm sure playing a good LAG game would be more profitable but I can't help with that. Your stats are very similar to what mine were when I played 10NL.

First the gap between VPIP and PFR is unusually high. Isolate more instead of limping behind, 3bet instead of calling a raise, especially against regulars.
Your overall aggression is fine but it's too low on the turn and especially the river. Second barrel more both as a bluff and with marginal hands. It's rarely a good play to check behind the turn for pot control. Also bet/fold more on the turn and river instead of check/calling. This is opponent dependent but true in general at this level.
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Old 06-23-2008, 10:44 PM   #9
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**



anything stand out that I could be doing better or look strange?
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Old 06-23-2008, 10:55 PM   #10
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

AceofSpades:

Holy smokes are you aggro on the button. 34/31? Really?? Attempting to steal the blinds is great and all, but 40% of the time seems a bit on the high side. I'd probably scale back a bit. Not MUCH, mind you, but a BIT. You have had some really good showings from the button so far, but I can't help but think some of that is variance. Maybe at $25NL you can get away with this kind of play, however....

I suggest you loosen up a bit from CO in blind-steal situations and tighten up a bit from BTN in blind-steal situations. Split the difference somewhat. You'll find that CO really isn't that vastly different from BTN for steals, and you can pad your winrate by treating them similarly.

From your W$SF and W$SD I'd say you're a pretty aggressive player. That's good -- it will serve you well in the future -- but it's probably not optimal at $25NL. Remember those skills for when you move up to $100NL, but for now consider scaling back a tad. The reason your W$SD is so small is that you're driving away all of the second-best hands before you get to showdown. A few random thoughts:

1. Consider reducing the size of your c-bets. If you make a c-bet that's usually 3/4ths-pot you'll get a bit more action, but you'll also be offering yourself really good odds on the gamble. (If you already c-bet 3/4ths, stick with it.)

2. Consider checking the turn with TPTK-type hands. A line of "bet flop, check turn, bet river" often has more equity than a line of "bet flop, bet turn, bet river" since you get table-sheriff calls on the river more often than on the turn. You don't have to protect against EVERY draw EVERY time; sometimes they just don't have it.

3. Consider checking behind on the flop if your AK hits TPTK and the board is dry. Don't do it always, obviously, but giving your opponent a chance to catch up with a second-best hand is often extremely +EV. It also gives you more folding equity on those times when you actually miss the flop entirely and check behind.

4. Slowplay once in awhile, especially against good opponents and especially when it looks like you shouldn't. If you check/call your set on a wet board your opponent will NEVER guess that you've got a set, and smart opponents will often pay you off like a freakin' slot machine on turn and river when they assume you're FOS because your obvious flush draw missed.

All of these comments are pretty speculative, but it's just what comes to mind at a glance. Remember, 10k hands is pretty small, so much of this could just be variance.
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Old 06-24-2008, 06:54 AM   #11
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

Hey all,

First of all, I'm looking for any advice about my numbers in pt -- which look too high, which too low, etc..

Also, I'd like some help interpreting my pokerev graph. Does Total winnings below sklansky bucks mean i'm running bad, or that i give up on hands too easily? Or both? Any suggestions are very welcome

-Mr Muni

Last edited by mistermuni; 06-24-2008 at 06:59 AM.
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Old 06-24-2008, 06:59 AM   #12
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

You're first link isn't working, though it was before and I snuck a look. Your stats looked solid, a slightly wider gap between vpip and pfr% than most (19/14 or 19/13 was it?) but that's relatively insignificant. Your flop aggression factor is lower than a lot of peoples (could be a consequence of the fact your preflop aggression is lower than most), and you're w$wsf is a little low, low 40s is pretty standard for a TAG. Again this could be to do with your low preflop and consequently low flop aggression. Your w$@sd is also quite high, which combined with your low w$wsf suggests you're playing a little bit weak tight.
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Old 06-24-2008, 07:05 AM   #13
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

Thanks, let me try this again... god posting pictures is frustrating, would someone tell me how to do this?

This is all 50nl 6max
[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

Last edited by mistermuni; 06-24-2008 at 07:18 AM.
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Old 06-24-2008, 07:48 AM   #14
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

I can save you some time from clicking the image. Sometimes I hate when 2+2 resizes pics. I'm 17/14 over 9k hands of 100nl. I cbet 63%, yet in hu pots villain only folds 47% of the time. It's so disgusting.

I mostly play 50nl, but I'm taking shots at 100nl lately. I've been getting absolutely crushed. Mostly bleeding monies away at a rapid rate. Not even fun allin hands or anything. =[

In general, at all levels of poker, if feels like people call my cbets a lot. HM has a beta out that finally proves my hunch right. I don't know if this is normal or what, but I basically get killed in pots that don't go to sd and I do ok with pots that see a sd. I realized this some time ago, and to fix this I really throttled back on my cbets which seemed to help.

I recently decided I wanna get better and open up my game, and I think I really need to be cbetting at least 65% of the time and playing more like 22/20, 20/18 than 16/13, 17/14 and only cbetting ~62%.

<edit> I think this is actually pretty normal. I'm probably just playing poorly postflop. I mean my stats at 50nl- are very similar, but I don't hate my winrate there like I do at 100nl ofc.


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Old 06-24-2008, 08:05 AM   #15
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

How does this look? (Limited access to HH atm, just the last few weeks):




edit: just noticed, why the fk am i making so much $$ utg? :S
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Old 06-24-2008, 08:57 AM   #16
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

hey, i'm glad you guys have finally created a new stats thread. the old one was way too long and unorganized.. =[

anyway, i just got back into poker about a week ago and i've been grinding uNL successfully. i'm trying to make the jump to 100nl, but i'm finding 100nl to be a LOT more difficult than uNL and i'm wondering if there's something wrong i'm doing. i'm finding a lot of my opponents to be super aggro and trickier, and i'm not sure how to fight back.

here are my stats for the past week:



that little dip in my graph is from trying 100nl for a bit. hehe =[

if anyone can give me some insight into what i might be doing wrong or have any criticism about my game, PLEASE let me know!

also, not to pick on you Pokey, but can you give me an analysis on my game too??? just like you did for aceofspades????? I'D REALLY APPRECIATE IT!! =P
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Old 06-24-2008, 09:47 AM   #17
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarizt View Post
I recently decided I wanna get better and open up my game, and I think I really need to be cbetting at least 65% of the time and playing more like 22/20, 20/18 than 16/13, 17/14 and only cbetting ~62%.

<edit> I think this is actually pretty normal. I'm probably just playing poorly postflop. I mean my stats at 50nl- are very similar, but I don't hate my winrate there like I do at 100nl ofc.

In my experience (and this NL25/NL50 I'm talking) you just need to pick your spots.

I found myself losing a lot w/oSD when I was giving up if I cBet and it got called. You need to mix it up, throw in some double barrels, float the flop and then pop a bet or raise in on the turn. You just need to work out when you need to be applying this as it is very opponent/situation specific.
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Old 06-24-2008, 10:08 AM   #18
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

pokahpaul, your winrate at 50nl looks good. You'll probably get better 100nl you just need more time.

T-Bird, yeah easier said than done right? One thing I noticed is that 50nl seems a lot easier after moving up to 100nl. 25nl is lol easy. I used to struggle at 25nl last fall, and 50nl last spring. I'm not really sure why it seems easier. Maybe I should play a few thousand hands at 200nl to beat 100nl?
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Old 06-24-2008, 11:52 AM   #19
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokahpaul View Post
also, not to pick on you Pokey, but can you give me an analysis on my game too??? just like you did for aceofspades????? I'D REALLY APPRECIATE IT!! =P
Say the devil's name and he appears....

I don't use HEM, but it seems pretty easy to interpret.

First off, some numbers of yours that I would like to see, because they tend to help people spot leaks:

1. W$SF. The "Won Money When Saw Flop" number indicates how effective you are with your overall aggression, especially when combined with WtSD and W$SD. Based on your other stats, I'd guess your W$SF is somewhere in the high 30s or very low 40s. If it's not, it could indicate a problem: a particularly low W$SF says that you're either not aggressive enough postflop (doesn't look like a problem), not selective enough with your aggression, or too straightforward with your aggression.

2. c-bet %. One of the hardest numbers to balance is your continuation bet frequency: too high and you become exploitable by people who press back light. Too low and you become exploitable by people who call preflop with speculative hands. Since you play so tightly preflop, a good number for you would probably be in the 75%-90% range: you can get away with c-betting more often simply because you raise so infrequently. Of course, selectivity is the key here, as with everything else in poker.

On to the analysis. Here's what I see:

1. You don't seem to be playing a very successful game from the big blind. Specifically, you seem to be overly tight. Now, while I agree that Tight is Right from the blinds in general, 9.4/4.7 really crosses the boundary from "responsibly tight" to "paranoid." To my mind, you should be 3-betting more frequently from the blinds than from almost any other position. Why? Because so often you will be facing a steal attempt by a player who has crap. At $50NL and $100NL, lighter resteals from the blinds are absolute rock-solid gold. Here's how you do it: the hand is folded around to CO or BTN who makes a standard raise. You check, and he steals more than 30% of the time. That tells you he has absolute doggy crap quite often. You look down at "22+, AK, AQ" (NOTE: that's 8.3% of your range, or almost double the amount you've been 3-betting from the blinds so far) and you say "time to go to war." At this point, you three-bet solidly: bump it up to about four times his raise. This will win you the pot immediately a remarkably large fraction of the time. When you are called, that's totally cool, too: now, you c-bet ANY flop, but you c-bet WEAKLY. My usual choice is to c-bet only slightly larger than my original preflop raise. I'm talking 50-60% of the pot size, here. Remember: the pot is already very big and many of your opponents are going to be playing fit-or-fold on the flop. Your c-bet wins the pot about 2/3rds of the time even though you're only putting in a small bet. If you are called, only continue with the hand if you really have something, but just making this preflop/flop play will be enormously +EV for you.

2. You are cold-calling WAAAAAY too much. If I'm reading your stats correctly, when you are faced with a raise you cold call an average of 8.7% of the time preflop. Zounds! I just checked my database ($200NL, but close enough) and of the players that I have at least 3,500 hands on there are exactly three winning players with CC% over 8.00. Three. Out of 741. You do not stand in good company. I'd try to get that number cut to 1/3rd of its current level as a start. Anything over 4% should be worrying you, and anything over 6% should be a leak. (Just to give you a reference, my VPIP and PFR look similar to yours but my CC% is 1.59%, so it really can go QUITE a bit lower.) How do you get it down that low? Easy: don't cold-call. If someone raises in front of you, make a decision: do I like my hand enough to three-bet this? If the answer is "yes," then three-bet. If the answer is "no" then you should fold unless you have a VERY good reason not to. Now, overcalling is a different matter; there are times when a speculative hand (usually a pocket pair, but sometimes a suited connector) does quite well overcalling a preflop raise, but for the most part when there's a raise in front you should be looking to either 3-bet or dump it (almost always dumping it, of course). The beauty of this plan is that when you actually find yourself mixed up in a hand postflop you almost always have the betting lead, and that's a recipe for success. Cold-calling is typically far less successful than reraising, barring an opponent-specific read.

3. Scale back that flop aggro. You seem to be going nutso on the flop. A flop aggression over 6 indicates that you're either trying to pick up entirely too many hands on the flop or you're giving up entirely too easily on the flop (or some combination of both, more likely). Some ideas to improve on this: first, not every flop is stealable. When you complete from the SB and four people see the AQQ flop, you do not have folding equity. As a general rule, people do not believe the blinds have an ace in a limped pot, and in a multiway limped pot someone probably DOES have an ace. Kings are about the same. If there are two broadway cards on the table you won't successfully steal often enough to make it worth trying. If the board is reasonably coordinated (two-tone or all three cards bunched reasonably close like T97 or 975) you probably have little folding equity. The best board to bluff from the blinds is three lowish uncoordinated cards: J73r or some such. Next best is an INCREDIBLY coordinated board heads-up: 654, or JT8 all clubs. Pick your battles. Second, recognize good slowplay opportunities. If you raised preflop with AA and the flop comes A44 you do NOT want to c-bet. Checking behind is more likely to get you two streets of action. You've crippled the deck, your opponent can't catch up, and you'd really like him to find a reason to call. a c-bet just pushes him off most of his hands, whereas a check gives you the chance to milk him on the turn and river. Similarly, if you've got AA and the board is A44 and villain donkbets you, consider a smooth-call. When OOP villains donkbet into my pot I only rarely raise; I'd rather force them to make another extremely difficult decision on the turn. Make it excruciating for them and they're less likely to donk you in the future, which makes your plays easier. Also, if you flop well when someone else was the preflop raiser, you're under no obligation to IMMEDIATELY checkraise. Sometimes you make more money by waiting until the turn to snap off two bluffs instead of just the one. This works best if the board is dry so that you don't run the risk of villain drawing out on you. In position I do this even more often, sometimes slowplaying all the way to the river against an aggressive opponent: if he keeps betting, I keep letting him have the lead. Finally, if your opponent is a calling station or if you think your opponent is otherwise extremely unlikely to fold, consider giving up on the flop if you miss badly. You don't have to always c-bet your 33 just because the board is T97; sometimes it's best to just walk away.
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Old 06-24-2008, 12:39 PM   #20
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

ok, this is really getting to me now. i'm close to moving down from 50nl, which is frustrating since i feel i'm generally playing well. some of this comes from running like **** - i can't get AA in pf to save my life (twice against shortstacks in the last 50 times i've had them), and on the rare occasion a draw completes for me, some retard's been slowplaying the absolute nuts from the beginning.

edit: sorry, i know i'm whinging, but there is some truth to this.

anyway, i'm getting desperate, and i'd love it if anyone would be able to give me come thoughts on where i can improve. i need all the help i can get at the moment.

cheers

the last 2 months or so, all at 50nl:

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Old 06-24-2008, 02:23 PM   #21
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

Here are my stats. please comment about what i am doing right/ wrong.
i want to play cash games instead of grinding SnG's since my bankroll is large enough for 25NL.

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Old 06-24-2008, 03:52 PM   #22
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

Here are my stats for the last 10k hands. I took a shot at NL25 where I was quite even (little less). I returned to NL10 as I think I wasn't comfortable with my bankroll so I could grind a few buyins. I've just went back to NL25 for a few hundred hands. I don't have that much time to play, so I don't have big samples like others.

From my stats, I think I have a problem playing on the button. Do you have any advice for this spot particulary giving my style, and in general ?

Thanks a lot.

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Old 06-24-2008, 05:03 PM   #23
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

Hey all,

I've been playing poker online for a long time but have been attending college at the same time and have not as of yet had the discipline to make it both as a student and a poker player. I used to play SNG's and did really well at them. I took a break for a while and switched to 6 max NL, because I know that's where the best money is once you get really good. I moved up to 50NL a little over a week ago and did really well for a while, and then hit a 5 BI downswing in one day and am down to a pretty pitiful BB/100. I'm really dedicated to learning to play the game now and so I want to turn what could be a big discouragement into motivation to study my game. Any comments on my stats would be much appreciated.

My sense is that I pick up lots of little pots all the time with my postflop aggression but (and this is just a gut impression) I feel like I lose too many big pots. If anyone has any insight I'm all ears!


http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...kerstats-1.png


Thanks in advance.
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Old 06-24-2008, 05:20 PM   #24
mistermuni
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

Pokey, your analyses of people's statistics are truly amazing. Huge kudos. I know it probably takes you a good amount of time to put in a thoughtful response, but if you find some time i'd love to hear your feedback on my stats posted earlier in this thread.

thanks,
Mr Muni
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Old 06-24-2008, 06:07 PM   #25
absoludicrous
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Re: **Official uNL stats thread, redux**

Just a quick stat check up. Talked to some people, started posting more hands, and re-worked my game in March after 3 months of bad play, bad cards. Hopefully I'm back on the right track.

All the hands I've played since March. Focusing more on shorter, better sessions, and not playing long ones when I'm down or tilting. I've gone back and forth between 2, 4, 6, and 9 tables, feeling most comfortable with 4.

I probably still play a little too loose in EP. Most of that has to do with opening almost all SC's, S1Gappers, etc. I'm working on narrowing my EP range.

All the limits I've played w/ stats:



Position stats:

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