Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Micro Stakes PL/NL Discussions regarding micro stakes pot and no-limit hold'em (25c-50c and below)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-18-2017, 12:26 AM   #1
Drakken
journeyman
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 220
Nut flush draw + overcards on the Flop against Aggro

    Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    CO: $5.47 (273.5 bb)
    BTN: $2 (100 bb)
    Hero (SB): $2 (100 bb)
    BB: $1.97 (98.5 bb)
    UTG: $3.29 (164.5 bb)
    MP: $2.45 (122.5 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with A J
    UTG calls $0.02, MP folds, CO raises to $0.10, BTN folds, Hero calls $0.09, BB folds, UTG calls $0.08

    Flop: ($0.32) Q 6 4 (3 players)
    Hero checks, UTG checks, CO bets $0.31, Hero calls $0.31, UTG folds

    Turn: ($0.94) 7 (2 players)
    Hero checks, CO bets $5.06 and is all-in, Hero folds


    Villain is a Maniac, 94 VPIP, 63 PFR, AF 12.0 over 16 hands only.

    Raising for semi-bluff was out of the question, because I perceived no fold equity against either Villain. It was either call or shove.

    Even though I was way ahead of Maniac's range (but not necessarily UTG's), I decided to simply call and see what comes on the Turn, with the aim to raise for value on making my pair or making the flush. Plus there is that pesky UTG caller behind me that made me call, rather than shove. Should I have shoved the Flop instead, since I had around 12 outs (9 full + 2x1.5 partial outs)?
    Drakken is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 05-18-2017, 05:14 AM   #2
    Karrlitos1
    old hand
     
    Join Date: Apr 2016
    Location: On the grind
    Posts: 1,543
    Re: Nut flush draw + overcards on the Flop against Aggro

    Your sample is just not enough to determine if he is a maniac or not. As for the hand yeh we can raise flop if you really think he has that many bluffs, but my default would be to call.
    Karrlitos1 is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 05-18-2017, 05:58 AM   #3
    Oregon Rick
    centurion
     
    Join Date: Dec 2016
    Posts: 198
    Re: Nut flush draw + overcards on the Flop against Aggro

    I think you played this hand fine against a maniac. Keep the pot small until you make a strong enough hand then take all his money...otherwise fold. Never try to bluff a maniac. Hand looks good.
    Oregon Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 05-18-2017, 06:13 AM   #4
    ALongmuir
    centurion
     
    Join Date: Jan 2017
    Posts: 184
    Re: Nut flush draw + overcards on the Flop against Aggro

    Well played. Shoving flop vs two recs isn't going to be great since we don't have enough fold equity, unless we think villain is bet pot/folding a lot (sample size isn't big enough for postflop play, need about 100 hands for AF).
    ALongmuir is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 05-18-2017, 06:15 AM   #5
    Bladesman87
    Carpal \'Tunnel
     
    Join Date: Jun 2009
    Posts: 11,932
    Re: Nut flush draw + overcards on the Flop against Aggro

    Just 3-bet pre. As played it's clearly fine post-flop.
    Bladesman87 is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 05-18-2017, 02:14 PM   #6
    Drakken
    journeyman
     
    Join Date: May 2008
    Location: Montreal, Canada
    Posts: 220
    Re: Nut flush draw + overcards on the Flop against Aggro

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bladesman87 View Post
    Just 3-bet pre. As played it's clearly fine post-flop.
    Let's say I 3bet here. 4x, I put 40c from SB and I get called by Villain only (not UTG). That's 85c in the pot.

    Same flop happens. I check, and he bets anything over 2/3 of the pot. I cannot fold that Flop.

    If I call, I put a 50-60c of my remaining stacks for just one card. About or slightly under half-stack remaining

    In that scenario, wouldn't it be more profitable to raise-shove to see two cards? Or do you play the same way?
    Drakken is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 05-18-2017, 02:19 PM   #7
    jaypatel33
    old hand
     
    Join Date: Oct 2012
    Posts: 1,697
    Re: Nut flush draw + overcards on the Flop against Aggro

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Drakken View Post
    Let's say I 3bet here. 4x, I put 40c from SB and I get called by Villain only (not UTG). That's 85c in the pot.

    Same flop happens. I check, and he bets anything over 2/3 of the pot. I cannot fold that Flop.

    If I call, I put a 50-60c of my remaining stacks for just one card. About or slightly under half-stack remaining

    In that scenario, wouldn't it be more profitable to raise-shove to see two cards? Or do you play the same way?
    If you 3bet, just cbet flop and GII if needs be.
    jaypatel33 is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 05-18-2017, 02:22 PM   #8
    tomj
    veteran
     
    Join Date: Jul 2013
    Posts: 2,934
    Re: Nut flush draw + overcards on the Flop against Aggro

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Drakken View Post
    Let's say I 3bet here. 4x, I put 40c from SB and I get called by Villain only (not UTG). That's 85c in the pot.

    Same flop happens. I check, and he bets anything over 2/3 of the pot. I cannot fold that Flop.

    If I call, I put a 50-60c of my remaining stacks for just one card. About or slightly under half-stack remaining

    In that scenario, wouldn't it be more profitable to raise-shove to see two cards? Or do you play the same way?
    It's close between betting and check shoving. Can't go too far wrong either way
    tomj is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 05-18-2017, 08:50 PM   #9
    Bladesman87
    Carpal \'Tunnel
     
    Join Date: Jun 2009
    Posts: 11,932
    Re: Nut flush draw + overcards on the Flop against Aggro

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Drakken View Post
    Let's say I 3bet here. 4x, I put 40c from SB and I get called by Villain only (not UTG). That's 85c in the pot.

    Same flop happens. I check, and he bets anything over 2/3 of the pot. I cannot fold that Flop.

    If I call, I put a 50-60c of my remaining stacks for just one card. About or slightly under half-stack remaining

    In that scenario, wouldn't it be more profitable to raise-shove to see two cards? Or do you play the same way?
    If you 3-bet pre then why would you want to ever fold that flop? No need to go as big as 4x.

    But this kind of analysis is a little pointless because you're ignoring all the other scenarios that could happen, like he folds pre and you win the pot, or you make a hand on the flop/turn/river and value bet.
    Bladesman87 is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 05-18-2017, 11:05 PM   #10
    Drakken
    journeyman
     
    Join Date: May 2008
    Location: Montreal, Canada
    Posts: 220
    Re: Nut flush draw + overcards on the Flop against Aggro

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bladesman87 View Post
    But this kind of analysis is a little pointless because you're ignoring all the other scenarios that could happen, like he folds pre and you win the pot, or you make a hand on the flop/turn/river and value bet.
    It is not pointless for me. It allows me to see and plan how different this hand might play when 3-betted, but with the same situation.
    Drakken is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 05-19-2017, 08:18 AM   #11
    Bladesman87
    Carpal \'Tunnel
     
    Join Date: Jun 2009
    Posts: 11,932
    Re: Nut flush draw + overcards on the Flop against Aggro

    I think I misread your post slightly.

    If I 3-bet then I'm just going to c-bet the nut flush draw and an over vs. this guy and then it's just a maths spot depending on his reaction where you have a likely twelve outs or better.
    Bladesman87 is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 05-19-2017, 08:34 AM   #12
    Yacht67
    centurion
     
    Yacht67's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Nov 2016
    Posts: 151
    Re: Nut flush draw + overcards on the Flop against Aggro

    The sample is too small. I would 3bet pre vs his stats if we did want to take the "he is a maniac" line. But as played I would fold this on the turn. We are risking $5.06 to win a 94 cent pot.
    Yacht67 is offline   Reply With Quote

    Reply
          

    Thread Tools
    Display Modes

    Posting Rules
    You may not post new threads
    You may not post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is On
    HTML code is Off


    Forum Jump


    All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:04 AM.


    Powered by vBulletin®
    Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
    Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.33 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
    Copyright ę 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
     
     
    Poker Players - Streaming Live Online