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Nut flush draw + overcards on the Flop against Aggro Nut flush draw + overcards on the Flop against Aggro

05-18-2017 , 12:26 AM
    Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    CO: $5.47 (273.5 bb)
    BTN: $2 (100 bb)
    Hero (SB): $2 (100 bb)
    BB: $1.97 (98.5 bb)
    UTG: $3.29 (164.5 bb)
    MP: $2.45 (122.5 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with A J
    UTG calls $0.02, MP folds, CO raises to $0.10, BTN folds, Hero calls $0.09, BB folds, UTG calls $0.08

    Flop: ($0.32) Q 6 4 (3 players)
    Hero checks, UTG checks, CO bets $0.31, Hero calls $0.31, UTG folds

    Turn: ($0.94) 7 (2 players)
    Hero checks, CO bets $5.06 and is all-in, Hero folds


    Villain is a Maniac, 94 VPIP, 63 PFR, AF 12.0 over 16 hands only.

    Raising for semi-bluff was out of the question, because I perceived no fold equity against either Villain. It was either call or shove.

    Even though I was way ahead of Maniac's range (but not necessarily UTG's), I decided to simply call and see what comes on the Turn, with the aim to raise for value on making my pair or making the flush. Plus there is that pesky UTG caller behind me that made me call, rather than shove. Should I have shoved the Flop instead, since I had around 12 outs (9 full + 2x1.5 partial outs)?
    Nut flush draw + overcards on the Flop against Aggro Quote
    05-18-2017 , 05:14 AM
    Your sample is just not enough to determine if he is a maniac or not. As for the hand yeh we can raise flop if you really think he has that many bluffs, but my default would be to call.
    Nut flush draw + overcards on the Flop against Aggro Quote
    05-18-2017 , 05:58 AM
    I think you played this hand fine against a maniac. Keep the pot small until you make a strong enough hand then take all his money...otherwise fold. Never try to bluff a maniac. Hand looks good.
    Nut flush draw + overcards on the Flop against Aggro Quote
    05-18-2017 , 06:13 AM
    Well played. Shoving flop vs two recs isn't going to be great since we don't have enough fold equity, unless we think villain is bet pot/folding a lot (sample size isn't big enough for postflop play, need about 100 hands for AF).
    Nut flush draw + overcards on the Flop against Aggro Quote
    05-18-2017 , 06:15 AM
    Just 3-bet pre. As played it's clearly fine post-flop.
    Nut flush draw + overcards on the Flop against Aggro Quote
    05-18-2017 , 02:14 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bladesman87
    Just 3-bet pre. As played it's clearly fine post-flop.
    Let's say I 3bet here. 4x, I put 40c from SB and I get called by Villain only (not UTG). That's 85c in the pot.

    Same flop happens. I check, and he bets anything over 2/3 of the pot. I cannot fold that Flop.

    If I call, I put a 50-60c of my remaining stacks for just one card. About or slightly under half-stack remaining

    In that scenario, wouldn't it be more profitable to raise-shove to see two cards? Or do you play the same way?
    Nut flush draw + overcards on the Flop against Aggro Quote
    05-18-2017 , 02:19 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Drakken
    Let's say I 3bet here. 4x, I put 40c from SB and I get called by Villain only (not UTG). That's 85c in the pot.

    Same flop happens. I check, and he bets anything over 2/3 of the pot. I cannot fold that Flop.

    If I call, I put a 50-60c of my remaining stacks for just one card. About or slightly under half-stack remaining

    In that scenario, wouldn't it be more profitable to raise-shove to see two cards? Or do you play the same way?
    If you 3bet, just cbet flop and GII if needs be.
    Nut flush draw + overcards on the Flop against Aggro Quote
    05-18-2017 , 02:22 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Drakken
    Let's say I 3bet here. 4x, I put 40c from SB and I get called by Villain only (not UTG). That's 85c in the pot.

    Same flop happens. I check, and he bets anything over 2/3 of the pot. I cannot fold that Flop.

    If I call, I put a 50-60c of my remaining stacks for just one card. About or slightly under half-stack remaining

    In that scenario, wouldn't it be more profitable to raise-shove to see two cards? Or do you play the same way?
    It's close between betting and check shoving. Can't go too far wrong either way
    Nut flush draw + overcards on the Flop against Aggro Quote
    05-18-2017 , 08:50 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Drakken
    Let's say I 3bet here. 4x, I put 40c from SB and I get called by Villain only (not UTG). That's 85c in the pot.

    Same flop happens. I check, and he bets anything over 2/3 of the pot. I cannot fold that Flop.

    If I call, I put a 50-60c of my remaining stacks for just one card. About or slightly under half-stack remaining

    In that scenario, wouldn't it be more profitable to raise-shove to see two cards? Or do you play the same way?
    If you 3-bet pre then why would you want to ever fold that flop? No need to go as big as 4x.

    But this kind of analysis is a little pointless because you're ignoring all the other scenarios that could happen, like he folds pre and you win the pot, or you make a hand on the flop/turn/river and value bet.
    Nut flush draw + overcards on the Flop against Aggro Quote
    05-18-2017 , 11:05 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bladesman87
    But this kind of analysis is a little pointless because you're ignoring all the other scenarios that could happen, like he folds pre and you win the pot, or you make a hand on the flop/turn/river and value bet.
    It is not pointless for me. It allows me to see and plan how different this hand might play when 3-betted, but with the same situation.
    Nut flush draw + overcards on the Flop against Aggro Quote
    05-19-2017 , 08:18 AM
    I think I misread your post slightly.

    If I 3-bet then I'm just going to c-bet the nut flush draw and an over vs. this guy and then it's just a maths spot depending on his reaction where you have a likely twelve outs or better.
    Nut flush draw + overcards on the Flop against Aggro Quote
    05-19-2017 , 08:34 AM
    The sample is too small. I would 3bet pre vs his stats if we did want to take the "he is a maniac" line. But as played I would fold this on the turn. We are risking $5.06 to win a 94 cent pot.
    Nut flush draw + overcards on the Flop against Aggro Quote

          
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