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NL6 shove busted draw NL6 shove busted draw

02-11-2016 , 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by btthywrsooted
What are you repping Sir? Rivered set of 8s? Some obscure 2pair combo? Random spew shove.....
same question. without a detailed read of V folding too far too much on this kind of blank river (unlikely) we don't want to stack off with Ah.

I don't like the limp in CO pre. I would prefer to raise should I play it.

if we're going to take an aggressive line vs this V raising the flop will almost always be better as our equity. is normally, roughly around somewhere between thirty and fifty percent
NL6 shove busted draw Quote
02-11-2016 , 03:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chop4Lop
same question. without a detailed read of V folding too far too much on this kind of blank river (unlikely) we don't want to stack off with Ah.

I don't like the limp in CO pre. I would prefer to raise should I play it.

if we're going to take an aggressive line vs this V raising the flop will almost always be better as our equity. is normally, roughly around somewhere between thirty and fifty percent
Pot is still small so if we get it all in on the flop we are never a favorite. Therefore I decided to flat. If he is weak like we'll get a free card anyway expecting he won't barrel through with AK. Also it is a small bet so great odds for me to draw.

Not that I would never raise my FD here but in this case decided to flat.

But I would play A5 and 56 exactly the same. Maybe should have raised the turn to make a better representation of these hands.
NL6 shove busted draw Quote
02-11-2016 , 04:05 PM
You should raise pre for any number of reasons. For a start, even though stealing is only 1.5bb, this is actually a good profit. Consider that killing a limit would be a winrate of around 10bb/100, now think about whether taking easy money in the CO and BTN is a good thing. Hold'em is a marginal game and any place you can take easy money is a huge bonus. Stealing is hugely profitable.

When you raise you force the blinds to defend out of position and with a wide range (as they've put money in with 50% and 100% of hands respectively). You can make a good argument for limping button to exploit players who 3-bet far too much, but otherwise this "outplay them" thing is a misunderstanding. You're allowing them to play well when they won't make many mistakes by checking weak hands and raising strong ones.

And this extends into post-flop. In a raised pot, the blinds are often playing a capped range (because they didn't 3-bet AA-JJ and such). This allows you to outplay them much more readily because you can push range advantages, make it more expensive for them to draw, pot control, and so on.

If you raise A6s and check back an A flop, you're not saying you should've limped it. You're making life harder for them by having a strengthened checking range in a spot where they might feel the need to bluff large parts of their range.

I could go on about this but it's really basic pre-flop poker and you should just read some beginner articles instead of having everyone on here rewrite them all.

Aggression in poker is greatly rewarded. Passivity usually isn't.
NL6 shove busted draw Quote
02-11-2016 , 04:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladesman87
You should raise pre for any number of reasons. For a start, even though stealing is only 1.5bb, this is actually a good profit. Consider that killing a limit would be a winrate of around 10bb/100, now think about whether taking easy money in the CO and BTN is a good thing. Hold'em is a marginal game and any place you can take easy money is a huge bonus. Stealing is hugely profitable.

When you raise you force the blinds to defend out of position and with a wide range (as they've put money in with 50% and 100% of hands respectively). You can make a good argument for limping button to exploit players who 3-bet far too much, but otherwise this "outplay them" thing is a misunderstanding. You're allowing them to play well when they won't make many mistakes by checking weak hands and raising strong ones.

And this extends into post-flop. In a raised pot, the blinds are often playing a capped range (because they didn't 3-bet AA-JJ and such). This allows you to outplay them much more readily because you can push range advantages, make it more expensive for them to draw, pot control, and so on.

If you raise A6s and check back an A flop, you're not saying you should've limped it. You're making life harder for them by having a strengthened checking range in a spot where they might feel the need to bluff large parts of their range.

I could go on about this but it's really basic pre-flop poker and you should just read some beginner articles instead of having everyone on here rewrite them all.

Aggression in poker is greatly rewarded. Passivity usually isn't.
PREACH IT!
NL6 shove busted draw Quote
02-11-2016 , 04:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladesman87
You should raise pre for any number of reasons. For a start, even though stealing is only 1.5bb, this is actually a good profit. Consider that killing a limit would be a winrate of around 10bb/100, now think about whether taking easy money in the CO and BTN is a good thing. Hold'em is a marginal game and any place you can take easy money is a huge bonus. Stealing is hugely profitable.

When you raise you force the blinds to defend out of position and with a wide range (as they've put money in with 50% and 100% of hands respectively). You can make a good argument for limping button to exploit players who 3-bet far too much, but otherwise this "outplay them" thing is a misunderstanding. You're allowing them to play well when they won't make many mistakes by checking weak hands and raising strong ones.

And this extends into post-flop. In a raised pot, the blinds are often playing a capped range (because they didn't 3-bet AA-JJ and such). This allows you to outplay them much more readily because you can push range advantages, make it more expensive for them to draw, pot control, and so on.

If you raise A6s and check back an A flop, you're not saying you should've limped it. You're making life harder for them by having a strengthened checking range in a spot where they might feel the need to bluff large parts of their range.

I could go on about this but it's really basic pre-flop poker and you should just read some beginner articles instead of having everyone on here rewrite them all.

Aggression in poker is greatly rewarded. Passivity usually isn't.
/thread
NL6 shove busted draw Quote
02-11-2016 , 04:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladesman87
You should raise pre for any number of reasons. For a start, even though stealing is only 1.5bb, this is actually a good profit. Consider that killing a limit would be a winrate of around 10bb/100, now think about whether taking easy money in the CO and BTN is a good thing. Hold'em is a marginal game and any place you can take easy money is a huge bonus. Stealing is hugely profitable.

When you raise you force the blinds to defend out of position and with a wide range (as they've put money in with 50% and 100% of hands respectively). You can make a good argument for limping button to exploit players who 3-bet far too much, but otherwise this "outplay them" thing is a misunderstanding. You're allowing them to play well when they won't make many mistakes by checking weak hands and raising strong ones.

And this extends into post-flop. In a raised pot, the blinds are often playing a capped range (because they didn't 3-bet AA-JJ and such). This allows you to outplay them much more readily because you can push range advantages, make it more expensive for them to draw, pot control, and so on.

If you raise A6s and check back an A flop, you're not saying you should've limped it. You're making life harder for them by having a strengthened checking range in a spot where they might feel the need to bluff large parts of their range.

I could go on about this but it's really basic pre-flop poker and you should just read some beginner articles instead of having everyone on here rewrite them all.

Aggression in poker is greatly rewarded. Passivity usually isn't.
What stakes do u play because all the info I read in the micro forum from you is literally bang on every time. Real solid advice everytime
NL6 shove busted draw Quote
02-11-2016 , 05:58 PM
this thread is a good way to un-learn poker. thanks to bladesman for rescuing it.
NL6 shove busted draw Quote
02-11-2016 , 06:42 PM
That's why we limp suited aces, to keep the lower flush in...

888 Poker - $0.06 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (CO): 114.17 BB
BTN: 154.67 BB (VPIP: 23.21, PFR: 17.26, 3Bet Preflop: 8.18, Hands: 342)
SB: 39 BB (VPIP: 45.45, PFR: 9.09, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 11)
BB: 115.83 BB (VPIP: 84.62, PFR: 23.08, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 13)
UTG: 95.5 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 13)
MP: 100 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 63)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A 4

UTG calls 1 BB, fold, Hero calls 1 BB, fold, SB raises to 3 BB, BB calls 2 BB, fold, Hero calls 2 BB

Flop: (10 BB, 3 players) 7 3 T
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets 1.67 BB, SB calls 1.67 BB, BB calls 1.67 BB

Turn: (15 BB, 3 players) J
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets 4.17 BB, fold, BB calls 4.17 BB

River: (23.33 BB, 2 players) K
BB checks, Hero bets 20 BB, BB raises to 62.5 BB, Hero raises to 105.33 BB and is all-in, BB calls 42.83 BB

Hero shows A 4 (Flush, Ace High)
(Pre 66%, Flop 99.8%, Turn 100%)
BB shows 8 2 (Flush, Ten High)
(Pre 34%, Flop 0.2%, Turn 0%)
Hero wins 220.33 BB
NL6 shove busted draw Quote
02-11-2016 , 06:46 PM
wow, you must know a lot about this poker
NL6 shove busted draw Quote
02-11-2016 , 06:51 PM
We can all search our DB and find a hand to justify a spewy or bad play. It doesn't make them correct.
NL6 shove busted draw Quote
02-11-2016 , 06:59 PM
Aggrrh fishy game on both sides, pls do not show it to provide how is limping great. Really good players like Bladesman explained advantages of openraise, try to think about it and dont stick with one usefull hand.
NL6 shove busted draw Quote
02-11-2016 , 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by derjan
That's why we limp suited aces, to keep the lower flush in...

888 Poker - $0.06 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (CO): 114.17 BB
BTN: 154.67 BB (VPIP: 23.21, PFR: 17.26, 3Bet Preflop: 8.18, Hands: 342)
SB: 39 BB (VPIP: 45.45, PFR: 9.09, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 11)
BB: 115.83 BB (VPIP: 84.62, PFR: 23.08, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 13)
UTG: 95.5 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 13)
MP: 100 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 63)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A 4

UTG calls 1 BB, fold, Hero calls 1 BB, fold, SB raises to 3 BB, BB calls 2 BB, fold, Hero calls 2 BB

Flop: (10 BB, 3 players) 7 3 T
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets 1.67 BB, SB calls 1.67 BB, BB calls 1.67 BB

Turn: (15 BB, 3 players) J
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets 4.17 BB, fold, BB calls 4.17 BB

River: (23.33 BB, 2 players) K
BB checks, Hero bets 20 BB, BB raises to 62.5 BB, Hero raises to 105.33 BB and is all-in, BB calls 42.83 BB

Hero shows A 4 (Flush, Ace High)
(Pre 66%, Flop 99.8%, Turn 100%)
BB shows 8 2 (Flush, Ten High)
(Pre 34%, Flop 0.2%, Turn 0%)
Hero wins 220.33 BB
Jesus Christ
NL6 shove busted draw Quote
02-11-2016 , 07:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantor1987
What stakes do u play because all the info I read in the micro forum from you is literally bang on every time. Real solid advice everytime
Only 50nl, occasionally 100nl. I've actually spent the last few days playing snap 10nl to try 888 out. Probably going to build a roll there for a change of scenery.

There's a number of other posters in this forum that are definitely better than me (some play much higher). I just enjoy doing this kind of hand/strat review.
NL6 shove busted draw Quote
02-11-2016 , 07:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by derjan
That's why we limp suited aces, to keep the lower flush in...
Limping behind is actually going to be significantly different to open limping, although I think it's worse here because you're in early position.

Either way, you think every losing player out there can't post a hand where they won a buy-in? This doesn't say anything about whether it's an overall good or optimal strat.

GG coolering a guy with an 84% vpip but there's probably significantly more money to be made from him by raising and value betting thin than hoping to flop flushes.
NL6 shove busted draw Quote
02-12-2016 , 04:07 AM
I limp to keep the fish in
NL6 shove busted draw Quote
02-12-2016 , 04:29 AM
Just check/call down to the river, then the fish definitely won't go anywhere.
NL6 shove busted draw Quote
02-12-2016 , 05:14 AM
Tx for the advice.
NL6 shove busted draw Quote
02-12-2016 , 05:32 AM
I thought a long time poster that gives good advice in this forum like derjan was trolling us. I still do though I'm doubting a bit now
NL6 shove busted draw Quote
02-12-2016 , 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by derjan
I limp to keep the fish in
BB just called a 3bb raise w/ 82s OOP. You think he wouldn't have when you opened to 3bb?
That sizing tho! Betting 1/5p and 1/3p vs a range that has loads of FD's in it that call vs any size or pairs that fold if the 4th spade hits, isn't the way to extract max value. You bomb the R where you will get the most folds. Do it the other way around imo. Bomb F&T and bet something silly OTR to make him call 7x or whatever.
NL6 shove busted draw Quote
02-12-2016 , 12:30 PM
is this BBV?

can we talk about limping aces UTG now?
NL6 shove busted draw Quote
02-12-2016 , 01:41 PM
Sure if you want
NL6 shove busted draw Quote
02-14-2016 , 07:19 AM
Result:

Villain called with AQ. Think it was a brave call.
NL6 shove busted draw Quote

      
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