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NL50 flop cbet or not? (3b-pot) NL50 flop cbet or not? (3b-pot)

10-21-2016 , 06:02 AM
I think I get into these spots to often and my redline suffers because of it. I don't really know what to do in these spots or am I overthinking it?

I 3b for value because he calls 60%+ vs 3b. Then on the flop I got 2 overcards + he folds 50%+ vs cbets in 3b pots. I guess he folds most of his Ax combos except the flushdraws etc.

Should I just c/f? Should I do a different sizing? Just call pre and use it to balance my c/r range with 2 overcards etc?

BTN: 430.69 BB (VPIP: 25.91, PFR: 16.69, 3Bet Preflop: 6.85, Hands: 1,236)
Hero (SB): 96.88 BB
BB: 37.42 BB (VPIP: 45.39, PFR: 24.82, 3Bet Preflop: 1.79, Hands: 143)
UTG: 278.64 BB (VPIP: 25.98, PFR: 21.85, 3Bet Preflop: 11.94, Hands: 2,002)
CO: 210.06 BB (VPIP: 32.08, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 112)

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K J

fold, fold, BTN raises to 2.88 BB, Hero raises to 10.5 BB, fold, BTN calls 7.63 BB

Flop: (22 BB, 2 players) 4 3 T
Hero bets 14 BB, BTN raises to 39 BB, fold

BTN wins 48.76 BB
NL50 flop cbet or not? (3b-pot) Quote
10-21-2016 , 07:11 AM
He calls 60% of 3bets over 1.236 sample? You sure about this?

There is no shame in folding this hand pre against a solid V.
NL50 flop cbet or not? (3b-pot) Quote
10-21-2016 , 07:17 AM
c/f flop
NL50 flop cbet or not? (3b-pot) Quote
10-21-2016 , 07:20 AM
Do you just fall in love with paint cards?

This is a super marginal spot.

EDIT: This was @ IClickButtons post, he changed it afterwards.
NL50 flop cbet or not? (3b-pot) Quote
10-21-2016 , 07:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by btthywrsooted
Do you just fall in love with paint cards?

This is a super marginal spot.

EDIT: This was @ IClickButtons post, he changed it afterwards.
This is super standard 3bet pre against a guy like this.
NL50 flop cbet or not? (3b-pot) Quote
10-21-2016 , 07:55 AM
Why is it super standard? Explain your statements pls.
NL50 flop cbet or not? (3b-pot) Quote
10-21-2016 , 08:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by btthywrsooted
He calls 60% of 3bets over 1.236 sample? You sure about this?

There is no shame in folding this hand pre against a solid V.
So I should fold KJ pre vs a solid button raiser that I guess have a bunch of Jx and Kx combos that I have beat and just give away my small blind? What should I call with in sb if I'm gonna fold this hand?

So its a leak to have always called or 3b KJo vs a solid button raiser? Nice to see a different view point. Would like a little longer answer on this question if that is okay?
NL50 flop cbet or not? (3b-pot) Quote
10-21-2016 , 08:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by loafer
So I should fold KJ pre vs a solid button raiser that I guess have a bunch of Jx and Kx combos that I have beat and just give away my small blind? What should I call with in sb if I'm gonna fold this hand?

So its a leak to have always called or 3b KJo vs a solid button raiser? Nice to see a different view point. Would like a little longer answer on this question if that is okay?
I wouldn't call anything from SB vs BTN by default, tho there may be some specific spots in which we can do that (based on BB tendencies).

When it comes to picking hands to 3bet from SB vs BTN, I would pick 10~15% of our range to do this against most opponents (we can change it if specific spots ask for it). Though KJo is in the bottom of the linear 15% range I think we should replace those hands with more PP or more KXs hands as they play a bit better OOP when called.
NL50 flop cbet or not? (3b-pot) Quote
10-21-2016 , 08:26 AM
yea standard 3bet pre even if it's the bottom of our range that we 3bet

Flop what do you guys think of cbeting range for 1/3 ?
NL50 flop cbet or not? (3b-pot) Quote
10-21-2016 , 08:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilgamesh94
yea standard 3bet pre even if it's the bottom of our range that we 3bet

Flop what do you guys think of cbeting range for 1/3 ?
He will probably float a high % vs a small bet and we will be in a weird spot on turn.
NL50 flop cbet or not? (3b-pot) Quote
10-21-2016 , 08:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilgamesh94
yea standard 3bet pre even if it's the bottom of our range that we 3bet

Flop what do you guys think of cbeting range for 1/3 ?
not sure that we can get folded anything better then our hand with this sizing
NL50 flop cbet or not? (3b-pot) Quote
10-21-2016 , 11:06 AM
It's not always gonna be the best sizing for our hand but a lot of our hands will like the value/prot and obv if we 1/3 range we 1/3 this hand as well
And just the idea is that the board is pretty good for us and doesnt hit his range really so overall should be a good strat ?

not sure also that's why i'm asking but i would like to hear thoughts about that
NL50 flop cbet or not? (3b-pot) Quote
10-21-2016 , 04:03 PM
C/f flop. We have no backdoors to barrel on, and really crap kicker if we pair up. We aren't getting a ton of folds on a T high board either.

Sure, it doesnt hit his range hard. But he's going to call pretty wide since it also misses our range.
NL50 flop cbet or not? (3b-pot) Quote
10-21-2016 , 08:22 PM
If you're going to c/f this flop, there's no point in 3 betting. You are giving away money to a guy like this if that is going to be your line here.

That said, the 3 bet is still marginal because even though you are way ahead of some of his calling range, you're also behind some of it and you probably lose a lot more money when you're dominated than you win when you're ahead. Given that the BB is a shortstacked fish I'd rather call here.
NL50 flop cbet or not? (3b-pot) Quote
10-21-2016 , 08:32 PM
pre is fine

you have a million cards you can barrel on the turn

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NL50 flop cbet or not? (3b-pot) Quote
10-21-2016 , 09:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triumph36
If you're going to c/f this flop, there's no point in 3 betting. You are giving away money to a guy like this if that is going to be your line here.

That said, the 3 bet is still marginal because even though you are way ahead of some of his calling range, you're also behind some of it and you probably lose a lot more money when you're dominated than you win when you're ahead. Given that the BB is a shortstacked fish I'd rather call here.
First statements dont really make sense. Just because we 3-bet pre doesnt mean we need a 100% cbet frequency. And from what Ive heard from pro filter analysis, T high boards get the least amount of folds vs a cbet. Also when we check this flop it's not like he is going to airball almost his entire range, as he expects us to peel at least a street with AK. Also he probably checks back weak Tx, underpairs to the ten too.

Agree that pre is a call since BB is a fish. Pre is fine at 100bb stacks and BB reg.

KJo is like the bottom of our range here so c/f is fine. Would def c-bet with K or J spades.
NL50 flop cbet or not? (3b-pot) Quote
10-24-2016 , 02:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minatorr
First statements dont really make sense. Just because we 3-bet pre doesnt mean we need a 100% cbet frequency. And from what Ive heard from pro filter analysis, T high boards get the least amount of folds vs a cbet. Also when we check this flop it's not like he is going to airball almost his entire range, as he expects us to peel at least a street with AK. Also he probably checks back weak Tx, underpairs to the ten too.

Agree that pre is a call since BB is a fish. Pre is fine at 100bb stacks and BB reg.

KJo is like the bottom of our range here so c/f is fine. Would def c-bet with K or J spades.
+1 to this
NL50 flop cbet or not? (3b-pot) Quote

      
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