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Micro Stakes PL/NL Discussions regarding micro stakes pot and no-limit hold'em (25c-50c and below)

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Old 05-20-2012, 05:45 AM   #1
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NL25-Zoom: KK facing 5bet? Can we call and shove any flop?

    Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    CO: $13.27 (53.1 bb)
    SB: $28.14 (112.6 bb)
    BB: $27.70 (110.8 bb)
    UTG: $30.32 (121.3 bb)
    MP1: $10.35 (41.4 bb)
    Hero (MP2): $38.09 (152.4 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K K
    2 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, CO folds, SB raises to $2.50, BB folds, Hero raises to $6, SB raises to $14.50, Hero ???


    These small 5bets are nearly always AA, but perhaps some villains might 5bet/fold here if they have a bluff range at all. Is there any benefit to calling villain's 5bet and calling a shove or shoving OTF?
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    Old 05-20-2012, 05:54 AM   #2
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    Re: NL25-Zoom: KK facing 5bet? Can we call and shove any flop?

    I think 5bet bluffing is so rare, especially vs EP-MP openers. Unless you have been 4bet/folding in your history vs villain. So i think it is more a question of wether he does this with AKs and QQ.

    Don't think he can fold anything btw way after 5betting, so i'd just shove. Calling and jamming could be ok, but he might be able to find a fold with what you beat then, so i wouldnt do it. Basically i wouldn't worry to much about folding out a bluffing range.
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    Old 05-20-2012, 05:57 AM   #3
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    Re: NL25-Zoom: KK facing 5bet? Can we call and shove any flop?

    stats?
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    Old 05-20-2012, 07:01 AM   #4
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    Re: NL25-Zoom: KK facing 5bet? Can we call and shove any flop?

    Nah,sometimes they shove up with TT or AJ. If you fold and he shows you 72 u will tilt as hell
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    Old 05-20-2012, 08:18 AM   #5
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by burpst View Post
    Nah,sometimes they shove up with TT or AJ. If you fold and he shows you 72 u will tilt as hell
    It's zoom poker. People always show up with the top of their range.
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    Old 05-20-2012, 08:54 AM   #6
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    Re: NL25-Zoom: KK facing 5bet? Can we call and shove any flop?

    Why is this a thread?

    There is no merit to calling villain's 5bet and I'm not folding. That leaves one option.
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    Old 05-20-2012, 09:33 AM   #7
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    Re: NL25-Zoom: KK facing 5bet? Can we call and shove any flop?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hicham009 View Post
    It's zoom poker. People always show up with the top of their range.
    Gl folding KK to 5bets
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    Old 05-20-2012, 10:56 AM   #8
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    Re: NL25-Zoom: KK facing 5bet? Can we call and shove any flop?

    Lol, 5B bluff range at 25NL...

    Just shove. Sucks when he flips over AA - but its a joy when he has himself a badly played and overrated QQ or AK
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    Old 05-20-2012, 11:06 AM   #9
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    Re: NL25-Zoom: KK facing 5bet? Can we call and shove any flop?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by burpst View Post
    Gl folding KK to 5bets
    Thats exactly what I did not mean, awesome reading comprehension you got there.

    Quote:
    Nah,sometimes they shove up with TT or AJ. If you fold and he shows you 72 u will tilt as hell
    Point I was trying to make is that this is just wrong. His most likely range is QQ-AA and AK. Not some weird 5bet bluff you mention.
    Watch less poker on tv.
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    Old 05-20-2012, 12:07 PM   #10
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    Re: NL25-Zoom: KK facing 5bet? Can we call and shove any flop?

    The guy shouldnt ever be folding to a jam even if he is bluffing so just ship
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    Old 05-20-2012, 12:36 PM   #11
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    Re: NL25-Zoom: KK facing 5bet? Can we call and shove any flop?

    If you call it's just going to let him fold QQ or AK on the flop.
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    Old 05-20-2012, 12:40 PM   #12
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    Re: NL25-Zoom: KK facing 5bet? Can we call and shove any flop?

    Why would you ever call and then shove any flop? He either has AA only in which case he's calling anyway, or he has QQ and AK in his range. Both would have called a shove pre once they 5bet but you actually manage to get AK to fold sometimes by shoving the flop so all you would achieve is to lose value from the part of his range that you beat.
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    Old 05-20-2012, 12:48 PM   #13
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    Re: NL25-Zoom: KK facing 5bet? Can we call and shove any flop?

    Ship it then. No need to wait for the flop, he's either got AA which you're getting called with regardless or Q-Q, A-K (as mentioned above.) A-K he can get away from on the flop and Q-Q he can too so might as well get it all in
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    Old 05-20-2012, 05:25 PM   #14
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    Re: NL25-Zoom: KK facing 5bet? Can we call and shove any flop?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PlayLikeRussian View Post
    Why is this a thread?
    Good point! Should've thought more before posting, but I did have follow-up questions...

    From the reverse perspective, I would usually just 5-bet shove. Do you see any merit to 5betting any other amount 100bb deep? Like, is there any benefit in doing this with AA ourselves?
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    Old 05-20-2012, 05:28 PM   #15
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    Re: NL25-Zoom: KK facing 5bet? Can we call and shove any flop?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Suzukishosan View Post
    stats?
    Standard sort of TAG, maybe a bit on the stationy side. 24/18/3.0 over 214 hands. 3betting 15.4% (13) versus CO, 6.7% OOP, 8.3% IP. He's polarized. Probably a lot to be said for flatting here. People seem very 3bet happy at Zoom, but rarely 4bet/5bet with KK+.
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