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Old 08-09-2012, 11:30 AM   #1
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NL25- Value on river?

Poker Stars $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

SB: $25.35
BB: $30.37
Hero (UTG): $37.26
CO: $34.04
BTN: $29.32

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is UTG with Q Q
Hero raises to $0.75, CO calls $0.75, 2 folds, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($2.35) 6 T 5 (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1.88, CO raises to $4, BB folds, Hero calls $2.12

Turn: ($10.35) 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks

River: ($10.35) 7 (2 players)
Hero ????

No stats on villain, just entered on the table.

Do you think that villain is raising on flop for value with TP to get called by FD?

Can i get value on the river or i will never get called by worst?
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Old 08-09-2012, 01:09 PM   #2
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Re: NL25- Value on river?

I just fold flop here when an unknown raises my cbet on this texture MW.

doubt he bluffs very much/can have 56/sets and even big FD's are at least flipping vs us.

as played I prob XC riv since it looks like a fd that didn't want to barrel paired turn because it diminishes his value range therefore decreases FE and people hate giving up rivers with air, although he might check behind Axss some ott since he has some perceived SDV
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Old 08-09-2012, 01:10 PM   #3
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Re: NL25- Value on river?

and if he has TP he will prob bet himself
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Old 08-09-2012, 03:57 PM   #4
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Re: NL25- Value on river?

also probably folding the flop, especially without the Q spades for backdoor.

once he checks the turn and river I would make a value bet about 60% pot.
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Old 08-09-2012, 04:14 PM   #5
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Re: NL25- Value on river?

So no one else likes a check/shove?
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Old 08-09-2012, 04:18 PM   #6
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Re: NL25- Value on river?

hmm, you think its worth risking him slowplaying something? like might be hard to get TP to call and people do go into slowplay mode with invulnerable hands IP a lot, I guess not on this texture though.
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Old 08-09-2012, 04:22 PM   #7
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Re: NL25- Value on river?

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Originally Posted by ProfesorKaos View Post
hmm, you think its worth risking him slowplaying something? like might be hard to get TP to call and people do go into slowplay mode with invulnerable hands IP a lot, I guess not on this texture though.
I guess he might be slowplaying but raise small, check back turn is most often a scared top pair type hand. I think he'll put us on a busted flushdraw very often.

idk, might be FPS, just throwing it out as an idea.

edit: BTW it depends on sizing too. If he bets pot I'm not raising. But something like a half-2/3 would make raising very tempting.
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Old 08-09-2012, 06:03 PM   #8
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Re: NL25- Value on river?

yea true, I would prob do the same now tbh

thanks
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Old 08-09-2012, 07:47 PM   #9
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Re: NL25- Value on river?

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Originally Posted by SquirrelsUnite View Post
I guess he might be slowplaying but raise small, check back turn is most often a scared top pair type hand. I think he'll put us on a busted flushdraw very often.

idk, might be FPS, just throwing it out as an idea.

edit: BTW it depends on sizing too. If he bets pot I'm not raising. But something like a half-2/3 would make raising very tempting.
So, if you think that he puts us on FD dont you think that he doesnt bet in there because he wont be called? And if we bet we will get called very often because he puts us on FD?
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Old 08-09-2012, 09:02 PM   #10
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Re: NL25- Value on river?

that makes sense so I guess leading can be good

although when you lead or check you sort of rep the same range but if you lead it looks a bit strong and a XRAI otr looks pretty fos

if we get called not so often when we XRAI otr it can be higher EV than leading out and getting called more often.

I think leading might be better the more I think about tbh because people suck at value betting light at these limits and as you say, there isn't that much we can call with in his eyes although that means it sucks when we get raised coz he can be bluffing/slowplaying with unknown frequencies and we can't really get value from his missed draws unless we know he will bluff raise our river lead
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Old 08-09-2012, 09:13 PM   #11
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Re: NL25- Value on river?

value bet river and WP imo.
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Old 08-09-2012, 09:17 PM   #12
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Re: NL25- Value on river?

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Originally Posted by ProfesorKaos View Post
that makes sense so I guess leading can be good

although when you lead or check you sort of rep the same range but if you lead it looks a bit strong and a XRAI otr looks pretty fos

if we get called not so often when we XRAI otr it can be higher EV than leading out and getting called more often.

I think leading might be better the more I think about tbh because people suck at value betting light at these limits and as you say, there isn't that much we can call with in his eyes although that means it sucks when we get raised coz he can be bluffing/slowplaying with unknown frequencies and we can't really get value from his missed draws unless we know he will bluff raise our river lead
Good point, I'm really not sure how often he bets a hand like top pair. Guess I'll just have to pay more attention in these spots so that I'll have more reliable assumptions.
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Old 08-09-2012, 09:34 PM   #13
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Re: NL25- Value on river?

Thanks for the discussion guys. Really helped me
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Old 08-09-2012, 09:34 PM   #14
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Re: NL25- Value on river?

np gl
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Old 08-09-2012, 10:13 PM   #15
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Re: NL25- Value on river?

fold flop? really? we got still 2 streets left to see him what will do... if we start folding premiums on flops to a single re may God help us
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