So I read a lot of Blindstealing posts recently, grinded the stickies and remarkable posts etc... now it comes to the point where I slowly start to acctually build them in into my game.

As you all know its kinda hard and confusing when you try to first bring something more, or more deeply in your game then you did before.

First I wondered WHY there are many good posts about blind stealing, but I did not finda pooh-bah post about defending your blinds.
Now I'm kinda lost in this scenario... I don't know with what kind of hands we want to defend, and HOW to defend at all.

Juts played this hand yesterday...
Is this how you defend your blinds?

Villain was 52/26/32stealatt. on 50 hands.


IPoker Network $20.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP: $4.30
CO: $24.81
BTN: $17.20
SB: $29.76
Hero (BB): $20.00
UTG: $32.35

Pre Flop: ($0.30) Hero is BB with K T
3 folds, BTN raises to $0.60, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.40

Flop: ($1.30) 5 4 T (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $0.80, Hero calls $0.80

Turn: ($2.90) 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $1.00, Hero raises to $3, BTN calls $2

River: ($8.90) 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $3.00, BTN calls $3

3b out the blinds.

+1

Against someone with a Stealblindattempt of over 35%, I would raise to about 2$ preflop (depending on Tabledynamics). Just to show he shouldn`t mess with my blinds. Then on the flop I would definitely C-Bet. If he calls I would proceed with caution.
As you played the hand I would definitely reraise massively on the flop.

I'm used to do that normally.
I just 3-bet every once in a while with hands like QJs or 66 etc.
But I saw some Threads here arround where Hero made a similar play and the crowd went like "yeah its an easy defend preflop I call here too" etc...

So is defending the blinds all about just 3-betting preflop once in a while?


I think we want to 3-bet rather then to flatcall in this paticular hand because we are OOP, thatfor we want to stop the hand right now, or play with less pts ratio so his positional advantage is smaller...
bringing me to the thought that if he would be SB and try to steal my BB a flat call is superior to the 3-bet because we want to play in position with a hand that can flop well and pick up nice equity (or that could be ahead) with a high pts ratio so he can make costly mistakes.

So conclusion:

SB/BB vs BTN > 3-bet more often
BB vs SB > Flat call more often

What hands do I want in either case?
What exceptions are there?

It depends on villain obviously, like most of poker situations.

For example against the same villain I might 3b KQs oop v BTN raise for value from the bottom of my value-raising range but flat facing SB open v my BB at the top of my flat-calling range.

Try experimenting, we can't just tell you which hands to raise, completely dpeends on table dynamics, villain history etc etc.

You play back at them pre (3bet), and play the hand as you normally would.

edit: Jeez absolute always beats me to it.

blind stealing and defending is villain dependent. Go with the game flow.

Dude, it's okay to flat call too. By 3betting, you're bloating the pot OOP. When OOP you want less money to go into the pot, not more. Sure, if you have hands like 22-66, 3bet them, for protection and image, but KTs is a fine defense. That flop was awesome for you.

Why did you raise the turn though? That makes no sense.

(edit: okay I forgot villain reads, in that case it's fine. 3betting for value is okay too, but higher variance and not too +EV, especially if reads may be wrong).

BB vs SB, you can be VERY wide, because you're in position. Your range is something like being BTN vs CO.

Remember, 3bet polarized range IP, 3bet wide range OOP.

this is one that never makes complete sense for me and I think its wrong

when we are OOP we want a big pot because > more money we have left, worse it is to be OOP.
Like when POT = stacks left its not horrible to be OOP as when you have 300BB left.

Positional Advantage is something that pays big when we are deep and see 3 streets of betting.
(well its ALLWAYS better to be in position but you got my point I hope)

isnt that true?=

This is wrong.

This is right.

No, that's when you want to be stacking off. You don't want to be stacking off, you just want to be restealing the blinds.

edit: wait what? joyce can you explain it?

Its interesting and i dont think anyone can give the correct answer to a generic defending blinds hand.

Reraising...

I think with regaurds to making the pot bigger because we're out of position and want to play fewer streets is misapplying that concept or perhaps that concept is a bit silly with regaurds to TP hands in general i'm not sure(Thoughts?).
Reason i say this is because with KT on Txx, you're not wanting to stack off so making the pot larger (so you can maybe get all in by the turn) isn't really valid IMO. This hand isn't very strong and although dynamics and hand ranges change(usually hand strength becomes weaker, so TPTK for alot of players can become a 100BB stack off) in blind battles as people are HU and its a ego war i dont think you want to stack off in general here(I want to control the pot, win a medium to small pot as i want to extract value form weaker TX and this wont happen in bigger pots, when you'll lose to ovepairs and stronger TP holdings).

Reraising preflop also creates a bigger pot OOP, now your having to risk far more money OOP and you generally don't want this to be the case. You also have a weak hand, a quote of "Big hands, big pots" comes to mind and is valid here IMO.

FInally by reraising preflop, you will get some value(I.e. Win the pot right now = Value in this sense of the wordvs folding J9o) and you'll also get value from PP's hoping to hit sets (Although being OOP, reduces your cbet effectiveness and thus you dont get as much value as if your IP and can delay cbet/2barrel etc vs floats. 88 Now calls a cbet bluff on K33 and your pretty worried on the turn & maybe lose or give up the pot which you may have won IP).
By reraising you also get called by stronger hands, and fold the weaker(JTs, QTs, T9o etc IMO unless villan is looser) so you lose valuein that sense Vs calling where perhaps we get a flop cbet and a river bet(we'll have to play poker post flop, fun times!).
One thing i do want to add though vs a looser villan, if he's at all tricky i really hate KT OOP and in general tbh(Its just tough to play often) so i dont mind a reraise(If he has high fold to bet%!) or folding(We'll play him in a better spot).


However as villans stealing range widens(looks like this may be the case) the value of a 3bet(just to fold his huge %'s of junk hands) rockets up specially if he's a folder(not a tricky call/randomly raise maniac!). So we start to just make the hand easier for us by 3betting/taking it down vs his junk and if called being very cautious.

Calling...
Just opposite to all the above reasons, we're often ahead and let the JT's QT come in etc.


In this case the limited read on this guy makes me just want to call OOP, i imagine he's the sort of player who is wild and could make postflop very difficult(so i want a small controllable pot where i risk less). I also dont expect him to fold preflop as much as a 22/18 player would with ATS of 35% say. As i expect him to be tricky, i just want this pot small.

Folding is reasonable, but you can't folding all day so why fold KTs.
If i have 22's i probably 3bet (they just play so crap post flop, implied odds are awfull in general etc).
If i have AQs i reraise for value, he'll still call worse and AQ is easier to play than KT imo assuming we hit of course.


On with the hand now, we've now hit a great flop and i want the pot controlled so i call (reluctantly giving OC's some equity back/Chance to improve!). Turn now is one of the better cards in the deck, no flush draw to worry about and now i'm torn between getting some value with raising or just calling.

I know he's aggro and loose so i can expect to extract from weak Tx hands by perhaps raising small here, plus if he picked up draws i get value. However will JJ get scared and call me down leading me to value town myself? How many draws are really out there, can i expect OC's to call? I'm not so sure so i think i just call, its very thin value if we raise and why not just let him hang himself as he seems to be aggro. If a FD hit on the turn, maybe i value raise then.

On river as played, small value bet to encourage all the weak hands to call of course.

Breath a sigh of relief he called, as aggro players can certainly raise you up there with that "weak" looking river bet. Do you call?

Anyone think i've missed some points or just got some things wrong etc? Be cool to talk more.

Can you expandupon this please Nosta.

Just briefly thinking about it now, i've never heard it being said and i think the reverse may be true.

If we're OOP, its tough to play so ideally i dont want to see a flop or if i do i want to be strong(22's 3bet, he folds or he calls i cebt & give up, or he calls i hit and its easy to play. AA same applies wheter he calls or folds its probably going to be fine to play post flop).

Now in position, i'm going to be in marginal spots so i want alot of info and i get that by acting last. I can also bluff scare cards with weak(worse than villans) hands and making float calls which i'd be less inclined to do OOP.

So can you explain your reasoning for the quote above.

I suppose if we're OOP and get called, we dont want to be easily read so a wider range is great(hell, a wider range everywhere is great as being deceptive is ideal). However, wider range to me implys weaker holdings by default as more hands added, less strength they have.

Thanks(also where did you hear this or read it or conclue it from? if you have any links that'd be great)

I dont like a 3bet here I'd flat and see a flop. To those saying we should try to get more money into the pot pre can you elaborate please because this seems pretty bad to me.. Our hand isnt strong enough to 3bet for value so all we're doing is playing a bigger pot oop vs a stronger range with a mediocre hand.. And given villains high vpip i doubt he'll fold enough to make a 3bet bluff profitable.

I don't worry much about defending my blinds per se. I think the point of blind play OOP against aggressive players is to get into Villain's head as part of your general scheme of pushing him around. Since you usually have position on him, he should be a prime target of abuse. You are smacking him down when he tries to take the button from you and setting up the big pot where he spazzes out against your value hand and you take his whole stack.

So from the blinds, I am generally playing a pretty tight range, but mixing in some calls and light 3-bets with suited connectors and pocket pairs. If I call, I intend to c/r bluff on favorable flops. The point is that most of the time I get into a pot with this Villain plays at me, he will have to face a raise at some point or another, and Villain is going to have to commit his stack to find out whether I am FOS or not. If I stumble into a hand with showdown value (like OP's hand), I just bluff catch and try to keep the pot small.

everyone do this please.

Yeh i agree with above, a tight blind defence range is generally good, just make up for it by making peoples life hard when you have position on them.

That is a very tought thing for me.

If we 3-bet and he folds TO MUCH of his open range, then we make a profit.
If he opens and calls our 3-bet TO LIGHT we make a profit because he will hang himself with weaker holdings.

Only 3 hands to consider are KJ AT KQ in this case, am I right?
Everything else above that he will call anyway or 4-bet us with (AK, JJ, QQ)
Everything weaker then our KTs he can 1. Fold and give us his money or 2. Call and play with a worse hand then ours. We profit from both.

1. Villain has a loose open range and folds to much to 3-bets. >> Raise
2. Villain has a loose open range and calls 3-bets to much >> Raise


For 1. > We don't mind building a pot because IF he 4-bets us preflop we are done, if we calls us whatsoever we know we need to hit a decent hand to proceed OOP. We have to be caution with our C-bets, and shouldn't go broke in this hand on this flop/turn (imo)
For 2. > We don't mind building a pot because IF he calls us his range is wide enough for us to make our play profitable. Hands like QJs, 55, A9s are in his range. It's not fun to play OOP but since the pot is big the money will go in with 2 or 3 bets therefor lessening his Positional Advantage

Does this mean you would fold hands like KJs or do you 3bet them viewing your 3bet as a bluff?

I do like.

You seem to have a very good grasp of it already my man.

IMO agaisnt a drooler this bad. KTs is good enough to 3b for value. Hes gonna be calling with ****e like JT,QT, worse K's, low pairs which cant stand heat, loads of small connectors. You kill his range.

Like arjenni said, you shouldn't be too worried about re-raising from the blinds unless the BTN is really going to town on your blinds or is a drooler who will call with random crap. The fact is that you'll be able to make your lost BB back from stealing and outplaying the players in YOUR blinds anyways.

if villain's opening/stealing range is huge you've got a spot to consider 3 betting from the blinds.

if villain's fold to 3bet range is tiny, we do it with a more polarized range for value.
if he folds on most 3bets, you can use a wide range to induce folds.

however, i never defend my blinds lightly unless i have solid stats on those numbers. in my experience, it's just not worth it.
even moreso if villain is a solid player - there are plenty of other tables to be joined.

I still don't understand why you're so excited about 3betting and getting the money in.. Against this villain we shouldn't 3bet bluff but we should widen our value 3betting range. KTs is still too weak to 3bet for value with imo.. How can you say that if he calls us his range is wide enough for a 3bet to be profitable? And the money goes in with 2 or 3 bets.. KTs isn't the kind of hand where you want all the money in fast often, you'd pretty much have to flop 2pair+.. I mean are you happy stacking off on a king high board?

One of the important stats is not given, his Fold to 3b. Although over only 50 hands its useless, in this case.

Blaaz, what is the worst hand you 3b for value here?

I completely agree with you here. I was wondering the same about that comment, but you clarified what I had thought to be true anyway.