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Old 07-05-2012, 05:32 AM   #1
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NL10: Second nutflush - line check

I played this hand on Entraction NL10 yesterday, and I played it a little bit differently than I would normally do. Therefore I need a line check to see, if I can go down the same path another time, or if you should completely keep myself away.





    Entraction, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #13416422

    MP: $10 (100 bb)
    Hero (CO): $10.18 (101.8 bb)
    BTN: $10.40 (104 bb)
    SB: $6.41 (64.1 bb)
    BB: $23.36 (233.6 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is CO with Q T
    MP folds, Hero raises to $0.30, BTN folds, SB calls $0.25, BB calls $0.20

    Flop: ($0.90) A 5 3 (3 players)
    SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks

    Turn: ($0.90) 4 (3 players)
    SB bets $0.90, BB calls $0.90, Hero raises to $2.70, SB folds, BB raises to $23.06 and is all-in, Hero calls $7.18 and is all-in

    River: ($21.56) 8 (2 players, 2 are all-in)

    Spoiler:



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    Old 07-05-2012, 05:48 AM   #2
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    I don't mind checking back the flop as it prevents you from having to give up equity when raised by an ace or better. But why raise the turn? You fold out most everything you're crushing and maybe get called by a few worse flushes, sets, and some aces with a good heart redraw. If you have a read that the bettor will stack off light then this is fine, otherwise you are losing value.
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    Old 07-05-2012, 08:25 AM   #3
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    Re: NL10: Second nutflush - line check

    i would bet the flop, just because we have no SD value and can get PP to fold by our 2nd barrel on the turn.

    as played never folding this hand
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    Old 07-05-2012, 08:37 AM   #4
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    Re: NL10: Second nutflush - line check

    Just bet the flop yourself, you have good equity and as PeoplesElbow said you can barrel many turns to fold out pocket pairs.

    As played I might call turn but seeing as there's not a lot of money in the pot from checking the flop I think raising is pretty good.
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    Old 07-05-2012, 01:15 PM   #5
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    Re: NL10: Second nutflush - line check

    Flop is a definite cbet, we're IP and it's an Axx flop and we were the preflop aggressor- I think checking back this flop is a huge mistake. If the turn blanks, then another player could easily bet out forcing us to fold. There are a load of turn cards we can barrel and then obviously any heart brings us the 2nd nuts.

    As played, you have to get it in on the turn, lots of worse flushes are playing this way. Unlucky that he happened to have what he had.
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    Old 07-05-2012, 01:53 PM   #6
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    Re: NL10: Second nutflush - line check

    id cbet flop and fold turn
    btw it is 3rd nutflush - 3h2h makes straight flush
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    Old 07-05-2012, 03:48 PM   #7
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    Re: NL10: Second nutflush - line check

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by StraightFlash View Post
    id cbet flop and fold turn
    btw it is 3rd nutflush - 3h2h makes straight flush
    Folding second nuts OTT is absolutely ridiculous (nobody has 32hh)
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    Old 07-05-2012, 04:06 PM   #8
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lumileijona View Post
    Folding second nuts OTT is absolutely ridiculous (nobody has 32hh)
    When we check flop and then raise turn our hand is pretty face up. I agree we shouldn't fold turn, but raising seems almost as bad. I dont even mind raising him all in on the river on most cards as villain is more priced in to call with worse flushes. But raising on the turn let's villain get away from worse as our hand is pretty clearly a flush. Once we raise and villain reraises the range is heavily skewed to nut flushes and maybe a j high flush or two. Given how we played the hand is villain really going to go nuts on the turn with an 8 or 9 high flush?
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    Old 07-05-2012, 04:17 PM   #9
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    Re: NL10: Second nutflush - line check

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by UrMoneyPays4 View Post
    When we check flop and then raise turn our hand is pretty face up. I agree we shouldn't fold turn, but raising seems almost as bad. I dont even mind raising him all in on the river on most cards as villain is more priced in to call with worse flushes. But raising on the turn let's villain get away from worse as our hand is pretty clearly a flush. Once we raise and villain reraises the range is heavily skewed to nut flushes and maybe a j high flush or two. Given how we played the hand is villain really going to go nuts on the turn with an 8 or 9 high flush?
    Yes.
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    Old 07-05-2012, 04:25 PM   #10
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    Re: NL10: Second nutflush - line check

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by UrMoneyPays4 View Post
    When we check flop and then raise turn our hand is pretty face up.snip
    It's not. We should cbet the flop and most people do.
    The fact that we did check behind the flop as PFR makes it less likely that we had a FD and thus less likely that we hit a flush OTT.

    I agree raising the turn when there is a potsize bet and a call looks very strong.
    I don't know OP or the villains, but what our line looks like is JJ-KK with a heart.
    Sure we often have a flush, but checking the turn makes it less likely, not more likely.
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    Old 07-05-2012, 04:43 PM   #11
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    Re: NL10: Second nutflush - line check

    cbet flop, checking bad is really bad
    as played be happy about turning a flush after checking back flop and get the money in
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    Old 07-05-2012, 05:15 PM   #12
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    Re: NL10: Second nutflush - line check

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PeoplesElbow View Post
    i would bet the flop, just because we have no SD value and can get PP to fold by our 2nd barrel on the turn.

    as played never folding this hand

    I really like this thought process. By checking flop, your giving up a chance to steal a very winning pot there later if you don't hit your flush.
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    Old 07-05-2012, 06:15 PM   #13
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    Re: NL10: Second nutflush - line check

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lumileijona View Post
    Folding second nuts OTT is absolutely ridiculous (nobody has 32hh)
    getting away from second best hand can't be ridiculous
    without reads im folding here
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    Old 07-05-2012, 06:20 PM   #14
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    Re: NL10: Second nutflush - line check

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by StraightFlash View Post
    Getting away from second best hand can't be ridiculous
    Oh yes it can and it is in most spots and specifically in this spot.
    Absolutely ridiculous.

    With some reads in some very specific spot (4 flush with second NF) you can do it. Against an unknown who definitely can get it in with any flush and possibly wider: it's insane.
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    Old 07-05-2012, 06:28 PM   #15
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    Re: NL10: Second nutflush - line check

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lumileijona View Post
    definitely can get it in with any flush and possibly wider
    may i ask, what makes you think this?
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