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NL 10 - river bluff attempt NL 10 - river bluff attempt

07-30-2016 , 06:20 PM
    Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37405460

    MP: $11.05 (110.5 bb)
    CO: $10 (100 bb)
    BTN: $14.87 (148.7 bb)
    SB: $10 (100 bb)
    Hero (BB): $8.90 (89 bb)
    UTG: $10.27 (102.7 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with J K
    4 folds, SB raises to $0.30, Hero calls $0.20

    Flop: ($0.60) 8 2 9 (2 players)
    SB checks, Hero checks

    Turn: ($0.60) 3 (2 players)
    SB bets $0.45, Hero calls $0.45

    River: ($1.50) 9 (2 players)
    SB bets $1.10, Hero raises to $3.70, SB calls $2.60

    Spoiler:
    Results: $8.90 pot ($0.40 rake)
    Final Board: 8 2 9 3 9
    SB showed Q A and won $8.50 ($4.05 net)
    Hero showed J K and lost (-$4.45 net)



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    (No stats on villain, but he seemed like a decent player.)

    So, would you call this river raise ?

    In that moment, I was thinking that his range is like 66,77 and flush draws, so there is a good chance for fold, and it's my only chance to win the pot ?
    Is my logic flawed ?

    Is my range too obvious here maybe ? (flush draws mostly?)
    Should I maybe raise even more than this ?

    thanks for all answers
    NL 10 - river bluff attempt Quote
    07-30-2016 , 06:55 PM
    You should fold river because by raising you only represent missed flush draws or two overs+straight draw like KQ/J10/KJ/Q10, and have no chance of winning a pot, especially against the range you put him on. He called because you're repping a 9, but you checked flop. You can't represent 22s and 33s because you would've bet flop/raised turn with those hands.

    It's also a really bad hand to run this bluff with, not just because of the line, but because you block a huge chunk of his folding range. For example, picking KJ is better because now it's likelier he has missed hearts or clubs.
    NL 10 - river bluff attempt Quote
    07-30-2016 , 07:26 PM
    i also forgot to add that he snapcalled it.
    btw when I think about it, I guess 8x hands are also in my range and are good enough for the move (like A8 etc.)
    NL 10 - river bluff attempt Quote
    07-30-2016 , 08:58 PM
    why didn't you 3b pre?
    NL 10 - river bluff attempt Quote
    07-30-2016 , 09:06 PM
    I think your mistake is assuming the villian is going to be thinking as deeply about your range as you are. For the most part, a microstakes player with any type of made hand is not going to make folds like this, especially after showing some agression. No one beats the micros with a positive red line.
    NL 10 - river bluff attempt Quote
    07-30-2016 , 11:05 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kapetain
    i also forgot to add that he snapcalled it.
    btw when I think about it, I guess 8x hands are also in my range and are good enough for the move (like A8 etc.)
    Why would you turn 8x into a bluff though?

    You should think about your flop checking range. I'm guessing you'd bet all your 9x for value/protection. You should be calling most of your 8x on the river. So your value raising range is going to be 33 and maybe a few combos of 9x if you check them, and your bluff range ought to be correspondingly small. You can easily end up massively overbluffing in these spots.

    Ignoring all that, I'd bet flop with this hand. You can get folds from 33-77, Ax, KQ, 8x often folds later. Most things he check/calls are going to struggle on later streets and we improve on a ton of turns.
    NL 10 - river bluff attempt Quote
    07-30-2016 , 11:35 PM
    3b pre

    bet flop w/ your overs/bd draws

    AP raise otr doesn't look too great given you block his missed draws
    NL 10 - river bluff attempt Quote
    07-31-2016 , 05:43 AM
    why aren't you auto reloading to 100BB? regs are going to assume you are a fish.

    Anyways, 3betting pre is fine but SB vs BB KJs is certainly fine to flat as well. If you aren't yet comfortable in facing 4bets and playing 3bet pots with marginal hands then flatting here is completely fine.

    Bet OTF, this is a perfect chance to fold out Ax, weak pocket pairs. You can fold out 8x on later streets that are scare cards. You have two overs and bd draws which is certainly more than enough to bet when checked to. If you bet OTF this ugly situation wouldn't have happened.

    OTR you are repping such a thin range of value hands. What are you talking about saying that you would value raise A8 here OTR, that is so much worse than flat calling. OTR what are you trying to rep? what is a value hand that makes sense for you to have? you bet every 9x OTF, your 8x should flat OTR, so what are you repping? 33? You have to be aware of what you are trying to rep when you bluff like this, just because villains line can be weak doesn't mean you automatically bluff. You have to legitimately be able to rep enough combos to scare your opponent. And no, you do not call this raise OTR. Villain has 8x way too often.

    Last edited by Waaario69; 07-31-2016 at 06:00 AM.
    NL 10 - river bluff attempt Quote

          
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