oh okay.

well fees talked about a table with 4 20/18ish players (who will fight for a fair share of the fish' money) and 1 fish, not the 3 nits we have here

I'm sory verneer but there is way too much good stuff in this one post.

Let's discuss this further in a new thread I just made:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/69...sition-681207/

This will make it easier to keep things organized.

Hi.

I've been around at nl25 for a while and I'm still there.
Just went through this very interesting thread, thx Verneer, and checked my performance with Axs UTG and it seems I have to give contra.

- which seems very profitable for me (i.e. A5s-A9s) like some other borderline hands as well



__________________

QJs, which I raise nearly 100% of the time, and JTs are also doing fine UTG and in MP.



So everyone who is confident in his game, raise it up I guess!!

eeeeek, you have a 71% W$SD with those utg hands.

ouch.

^^

your sample size is indicative of absolutely no conclusions

I am sorry for posting it.

Here is my sample of opening 16.2% utg

No no! Thank you for doing it. I would like to ask you a few questions about this further.

naw it's fine that you posted it. just realize 15k hands is a small sample to draw any conclusions about the longterm winrate of the bottom of your UTG range. we would all like to learn from this just as much as you would.

and verneer is the only source of information IMO (which leads to the source of my income)

<---- source of information

I just spent around 50 minutes talking with hankhat and I think it's very important to give some context to his post.

1. He is a very good player over a 270K hand sample who enjoys poker and low variance of playing the micros. I am posting his graph below:



2. His game has evolved and he's gradually added hands over time. In 2008, his UTG range was much tighter. In fact, it was close to what we recommended. It did not include suited aces or even JTs that much:



Let me emphasize the gradually part. It's clear that he has thought about each hand and added it one at a time. He does a lot of studying as to what hands are profitable for him from different positions. He has also played at these limits for years and has a lot of good reads.

3. He is very good postflop. I looked at how he's played some of JTs and QJs hands he knows when to bet, when to pot control, and when to fold those hands when he's OOP. He is simply a better player than 99% of the 10NL and 25NL player. If durrrr or Phil Galfond was to play at the micros, I am sure they could be profitable with probably 50% of hands UTG.

But most of you are not durrrr. Or Galfond. Or even hankhat

So ... suited aces and medium suited connectors are profitable in the right hands, but anyone who is just starting to develop a solid winrate at these levels is just better off folding them at first.

We do talk a lot of poker, but as I mentioned, I have a good circle of friends who are much better at poker than I am (a mixture which includes MSNL and HSNL players) and willing to answer my questions