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Old 01-26-2012, 06:09 PM   #1
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KQs BvB vs a very paranoid reg

Need a check on my preflop line here.

Normally I never ever 4 bet this, but I generally think calling 3 bets oop is just disgusting.

I also noticed this guy is VERY paranoid, in 3 bet/4 bet spots and in blind battles. E.g. I've seen him call a 4 bet with TT oop. He just thinks everyone is making moves on him all the time.

It's probably because he's very aggressive and makes a lot of 3 bet bluffs so I think he assumes everyone else who's not passive is doing it as well.

Could I have played this better preflop? What other line can I take?

Based on my read, KQs is in very good shape vs his 3 betting range in a blind battle.

So.. folding is ridiculous, calling is ****ing awful, 4 betting seems a bit spewy... what can we do?

Just for the record he SNAP called the flop shove with KJ without a moments thought, this is how paranoid the guy is.

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.25(BB) Replayer
Hero ($25)
BB ($25)
UTG ($25.11)
UTG+1 ($54.46)
CO ($26.96)
BTN ($26.73)

Dealt to Hero Q K

fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.75, BB raises to $2.25, Hero raises to $5.50, BB calls $3.25

FLOP ($11) 7 J T

Hero checks, BB bets $5, Hero raises to $19.50 (AI), BB calls $14.50 (AI)

TURN ($50) 7 J T A

RIVER ($50) 7 J T A T

Hero shows Q K
(Pre 76%, Flop 41.5%, Turn 96.6%)

BB shows J K
(Pre 24%, Flop 58.5%, Turn 3.4%)

Hero wins $48
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Old 01-26-2012, 06:12 PM   #2
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Re: KQs BvB vs a very paranoid reg

dont min 4bet, no-one folds
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Old 01-26-2012, 06:17 PM   #3
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Re: KQs BvB vs a very paranoid reg

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Originally Posted by Mark89er View Post
dont min 4bet, no-one folds
I make my 4 bet bluffs and my 4 bet value bets this size and people do fold a decent amount.

Not this guy though, so you're definitely right in this spot.

Is that the only thing that needs to change here, just the bet sizing?

The preflop choices on this hand really confused the **** out of me.
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Old 01-26-2012, 06:18 PM   #4
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Re: KQs BvB vs a very paranoid reg

id bet like 4 dollars, and snap jam
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Old 01-26-2012, 06:21 PM   #5
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Re: KQs BvB vs a very paranoid reg

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id bet like 4 dollars, and snap jam
Do you mean 4 bet to 6.25 pre instead of 5.50?
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Old 01-26-2012, 06:23 PM   #6
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Re: KQs BvB vs a very paranoid reg

no id bet 1/3 pot flop, and lol when he spazzes, then folds, or snap calls with his pear
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Old 01-26-2012, 06:24 PM   #7
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Re: KQs BvB vs a very paranoid reg

its hard to not have any 3b calling range at all bvb vs. someone who's pretty aggressive.
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Old 01-26-2012, 06:26 PM   #8
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Re: KQs BvB vs a very paranoid reg

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no id bet 1/3 pot flop, and lol when he spazzes, then folds, or snap calls with his pear
Yeah I think bet/stacking off or crai on the flop are both standard easy lines. That said, it is good to balance your flop checking line in 3 bet pots vs aggro regs like this guy.

The bit I'm having difficulty with is preflop. I didn't really like 4 betting, but every other option seemed worse.
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Old 01-26-2012, 06:27 PM   #9
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Re: KQs BvB vs a very paranoid reg

i'm calling pre

and bet the flop ffs

also, that drivel about balance is, well, drivel
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Old 01-26-2012, 06:27 PM   #10
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Re: KQs BvB vs a very paranoid reg

prety sure this guy wouldnt know what a balanced range was if it punched him in the face
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Old 01-26-2012, 06:29 PM   #11
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Re: KQs BvB vs a very paranoid reg

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i'm calling pre

and bet the flop ffs
Calling a 3 bet oop vs an aggro reg? Really?

There's nothing wrong with crai the flop vs very aggressive villains.

We get a cbet out of his air range and we also protect our flop checking line in these spots. I'd play an overpair the same way some of the time for balance.
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Old 01-26-2012, 06:29 PM   #12
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Re: KQs BvB vs a very paranoid reg

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prety sure this guy wouldnt know what a balanced range was if it punched him in the face
This is why he'll make the mistake of betting air which we can take advantage of.
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Old 01-26-2012, 06:33 PM   #13
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Re: KQs BvB vs a very paranoid reg

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Originally Posted by DaycareInferno View Post
its hard to not have any 3b calling range at all bvb vs. someone who's pretty aggressive.
Very good comment, this is the critical thing for me. As a rule, I never flat 3 bets oop in HU pots.

I've always thought it was one of the worst things you could do, even BvB. It's like burning money to me.

Am I wrong on this one? Is there a consensus on this?
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Old 01-26-2012, 06:34 PM   #14
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Re: KQs BvB vs a very paranoid reg

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Calling a 3 bet oop vs an aggro reg? Really?

There's nothing wrong with crai the flop vs very aggressive villains.

We get a cbet out of his air range and we also protect our flop checking line in these spots. I'd play an overpair the same way some of the time for balance.
yes, KQs plays comfortably well enough postflop + if he's aggro he's gonna barrel our boards way more often. learn to play postflop better? not sure what to say here

as for the second bit, you're completely ignoring respective ranges and reads. like i'm not even sure you know what you're saying
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Old 01-26-2012, 06:39 PM   #15
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Re: KQs BvB vs a very paranoid reg

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Originally Posted by Cheerful Demon View Post
yes, KQs plays comfortably well enough postflop + if he's aggro he's gonna barrel our boards way more often. learn to play postflop better? not sure what to say here
What happens when we miss? From the reading I've done, playing fit or fold after flatting a 3 bet is terrible, mathematically doomed to be a losing play, but trying to bluff and make moves oop is very hard.

Quote:
as for the second bit, you're completely ignoring respective ranges and reads.
Could you elaborate on this?

If we bet here and the turn bricks off we're pot committed oop and just in a really awful spot in general.

CRAI means we get his cbet when he has air, we get fold equity vs his weaker made hands and we also ensure we get to see both turn and river. It also negates his position advantage so he can't abuse us by floating which this guy is more than capable of.
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