During my first sweat session today I noticed that the person I was sweating with gave a lot more credit to the thought processes of 4NL players then I did. Examples of this are that he was considering there hand strength based on the fact that he raised on the button and based on that the person 3-betting him would be more likely to be 3-bet bluffing him as his hand range would be wider. Also, he thinks that the players are positionally aware, such as raising tighter in early position vs. later, which I personally don't think they have any idea about.
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I am curious about whether I am giving them to little credit, or if he is giving them to much
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Also, I am sure there are 4NL players out there that are thinking about this kind of stuff, but my assumption is that most aren't, what is your opinion?

imo most regs will know this stuff but not very well and will misapply alot of the concepts

imo they are very bad and probably don't know much. they might know some things but generally they don't. obviously a few will but just avoid those players if possible.

Any other opinions?

This really depends. I was playing 4NL very recently. Trying to rebuild my roll from scratch after BF and site changes. You can run into regs who have a deent idea of what they're doing. If you have stats you can tell right away if they're aware. Just keep your eyes open.

There are so many 4NL players you probably won't get a decent sample on any of them. Vs. an unknown who looks like a "reg", give 'em the benefit of the doubt because you can find better value spots instead of trying to 4bet bluff him or by calling some marginal hands. The more hands and the more reads you have you can definitely adjust. Dynamics help too.

Again, reads here. If you have a HUD (or at least paying attention) this really shouldn't be hard to figure out. Most "regs" (on Merge it's about 50/50) at this level obviously know about position and have tighter openings OOP.

how much are they thinking?


they don't.

I don't know. I dont play there..

reg's will be aware of position and stuff but not on a great level. like i suspect a lot of reg's will 3-bet wide from the blinds, but just always fold to 4-bet unless they have the very top of their range and will not widen their range to adapt to this

fish are not thinking....

Depends on the player obviously.

You could be sitting at a table full of morons or you could be sitting at a table with some ok players.

I think you are giving the regs too little credit just because you have seen so many bad players at 4NL.


4NL players (along with regs at other stakes--the highest I know being 50NL) are thinking quite a bit but their main leaks are 1) misapplying the skills they have learned and 2) failing to adjust.


not to mention tilting

I am playing 4NL now and have played a bunch in the past. I don't think players are thinking really deep into any particular concept, but many are aware the concepts exist.
For myself I use some of the most basic concepts, but ignore anything that is too in-depth simply because it won't apply to 4NL. I got a HUD a few months ago and since then I use some basic stats in some spots, but mostly just VPIP and PFR.
Overall the 4NL players play a similar game and copy a bunch of what they see. If they see a player min-raise, they will implement that into their game. The difference is that there is no reasoning behind a lot of it, and they don't adjust as well.
When I say "they" that includes me in most situations. I don't see the value in playing an in-depth game. GL

Thanks everyone, seems like the general consensus is that most of the 4NL players don't have a clue and the more regish ones know but don't apply it correctly.

Then you get the very small few who are solid players and are playing low for money reasons/as a challenge. e.g. Me [playing 5nl, also I saw someone playing 5nl recently who I have labelled as a good 50nl reg lol].

Im back at 2nl rolling up for fun. Oh and because funds are tight and im piss poor atm ;p