Over a decent sample size I notice most of my PP's are money losers. I am trying to figure out if it's possible to make them profitable in the long run? I just don't see set mining a profitable route. I mean even with calling with 5%-10% stacks PF. It's too hard to get paid off.

So I am wondering if it's possible to make them profitable in the long run or am I just doing something wrong. Any tips on making them more profitable?


What I usually do is open them for 3x BB no matter my position. If someone raises 5-10% of their stack PF i usually call but if it's close to 10% of stacks I fold sometimes. IP I usually tend to cbet some boards and it seems to work only some of the time. Other times I try to check it down but usually some1 bets turn/river to take pot and it's hard to play back when there are some cards in their range that could beat me.

Thats a vague strategy on how I play them. Is there any tips on how I can improve?

Fold pre.

And no I am not joking.

Low pocket pairs from the blinds facing a raise from late position from a TAG I always 3bet. Usually takes it down then and there and if they call you have a very good idea of what there hand consists of.

In position I sometimes call sometimes 3bet (only fold to nits opening UTG) depending on villian and how he reacts to 3bets. If he usually folds to them I'm more inclined to 3bet. In position I also cbet nearly every type of board you just take it down to many times for it not to be profitable.

Out of position I'm open raising these always. Again cbetting most boards with the exception of a few very connected T or J high boards.

Fold to 3bets or hit more sets.

I think you need to be more specific. My pp's are insanely profitable. But I don't go around calling 3 bets oop with my pocket 33's. I call raises in position quite a bit and occasionally oop and I lead them preflop from any position. I take down some pots post flop that I have no business being able to take down.

I have started laying down 22-66 utg depending on the game. Calling 3 bets with these hands oop is just not profitable.

I mean sure I open all pp's LP, and I'll 3-bet 22-66 against some LP openers

but opening 22-55 EP sucks imo

Yeah, i don't quite understand, all of my pp's are quite profitable. What stakes are you playing? They were very profitable at 10nl and so far, just as prof. at 25nl (over 12k hands).

One idea is, don't just play them for sets. Play them as pairs when you think you are good and when the make sets, sweet.

1) when you hit a set, don't always follow the typical set line, many people fold what i suspect are top pairs to this line. Play like a draw or rr on the flop, stuff like that.

2) small pp's do terrible after the flop, so let them go and don't bluff unless you're in a great spot and are very certain you'll take it down. I used to leak alot of money bluffin with pairs where the board will only get worse.

3) I rarely called 3bets pre unless we're quite deep and never oop cause it's really hard to get stacks in oop.

On a set mining note, i would not advocate a 10% rule, i'd advocate a 5% rule because of the times we don't get stacks. I try to not put in more than 5% pre with small pp

We can adjust our EP open range in looser games with low fold-to-cbet% players to not include 22-55. If there are short-stacks to act behind I open 22-55 much less in EP and open more hands like KJo, QJs, ATs where I can make a pair. If there are a tight players to act behind you who play pretty fit-or-fold on the flop than I think raising 22-55 in EP can still be profitable.

I throw pp's oop vs good players....I almost always fold to 3bet's from good players unless 150BB's+ deep.

Jedi I have been looking at your posts on pocket pairs. I think you need to slow down on your preflop calls/betting. 3x BB betting and calling with low garbage pocket pairs will always make you a long term loser. it is better to get into these hands cheaply then necessarily being the aggressor (This obviously depends on reads on players). In one of your posts you were the second caller to a 4x BB bet. How often do you think you are going to win with 33, OOP, against aggressive players. I tend to call about 50% of the time. All my low PP are winners right now. I need to work on folding my 10s and JJs.

I also think that you need to play your trips stonger. Bet the pot when you hit, against aggros even more. Low Trips is a strong hand that is concealed very well.

So you're saying I should limp in PP's OOP and possibly open in LP with PP's? I usually tend to never limp in when I play a hand. I think it makes me look too passive. (unless someone already opened, then I'll occasionally call depending on what I have.)


I have been in many unfortunate set over set confrontations and have the lower set.

Also I NEVER call 3bets when I have low sets (unless its like min 3bet)

This is the best time to call

w t f.

edit: Is this whole thread a level? I hope so.

Open fold.

i havent read any of the replies but just read your last line, u rly shud play sets like the nuts because people at micros play all sorts of strange lines with random cards most of the time u will be ahead