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Old 11-11-2009, 10:34 PM   #1
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Defending 3-Bets IP

I'm playing low stakes online with buddies and have crushing the preflop 3b/4b/5b wars using a 4bet/fold strategy both in position and out of position. I'm liking it but finding that I'm not playing nearly enough post-flop pots in position.

I've seen quite a few good players float 3bets in position very wide. I'm looking for some of those players and have a few questions:

Do you choose to play back at 3bets either by 4betting/calling? Can you balance both? When you opt to incorporate a calling strategy, are you flatting hands like AK/JJ-KK to balance your range and never 4betting or are you just flatting AA?
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Old 11-11-2009, 10:54 PM   #2
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Re: Defending 3-Bets IP

It is a very exploitable strategy if you are playing 4b or fold strategy.
Ppl will just start to flat you with AQ and 3bet with 35s.
Playing in position vs a wide 3bet range is printing money with playable hands.
Still if ppl are not 3betting as light and not adjusting at all, you can keep doing what you are doing.
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Old 11-11-2009, 11:00 PM   #3
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Re: Defending 3-Bets IP

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Originally Posted by wishiewish View Post
It is a very exploitable strategy if you are playing 4b or fold strategy.

You still don't understand what a 4bet/fold strategy is. It's the very definition of un-exploitable.

It's super exploitable if you are 4betting with an unbalanced range but any unbalanced range is exploitable so your argument sucks.
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Old 11-11-2009, 11:04 PM   #4
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Re: Defending 3-Bets IP

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Originally Posted by kaos_ View Post
You still don't understand what a 4bet/fold strategy is. It's the very definition of un-exploitable.

It's super exploitable if you are 4betting with an unbalanced range but any unbalanced range is exploitable so your argument sucks.
Ummmm, do you mean 4-bet/fold optimal strategy? The word strategy does not imply optimality.
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Old 11-11-2009, 11:05 PM   #5
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Re: Defending 3-Bets IP

Keep crushing your 10nl buddies.
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Old 11-11-2009, 11:07 PM   #6
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Re: Defending 3-Bets IP

Playing a 4bet/fold strategy with a very wide preflop range is less +EV than playing 4bet/fold with a tighter preflop range though. So I think I'd like to move to playing 4bet or fold OOP and calling IP.

I want to know - should you flat IP vs a wide 3bet range ALL the time? Like... do you ever 4bet on the button or just peel with your range? Monsters to protect your decent hands?
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Old 11-11-2009, 11:08 PM   #7
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Re: Defending 3-Bets IP

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Ummmm, do you mean 4-bet/fold optimal strategy? The word strategy does not imply optimality.
4bet (/ = or) fold

And yes it is un-exploitable. 3betting 35s and flatting AQ isn't going to be +EV for wishiwish lol
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Old 11-11-2009, 11:10 PM   #8
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Re: Defending 3-Bets IP

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Keep crushing your 10nl buddies.
You have a lot to learn. Watch WiltOnTilt and Professor Plotkin on DeucesCracked to start understanding the 4bet or fold concept. It's much more optimal than calling 3bets OOP and it's also +EV in position. However, I think that flatting 3bets in position is probably - like you said "printing money" or more +EV - vs wide 3bettors.
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Old 11-11-2009, 11:14 PM   #9
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Re: Defending 3-Bets IP

They donīt add the concept where people adjust by widening their value 5bet ranges and also shove pre with bluffs and also flatting pre with hands that they might normally 3bet for value and playing tricky/agressive postflop.
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Old 11-11-2009, 11:16 PM   #10
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Re: Defending 3-Bets IP

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Originally Posted by wishiewish View Post
They donīt add the concept where people adjust by widening their value 5bet ranges and also shove pre with bluffs and also flatting pre with hands that they might normally 3bet for value and playing tricky/agressive postflop.
Because it doesn't matter. When 4betting, you can adjust your range(based on a 3bet%) such that villain can't possibly exploit you by doing either of those. (5betting more value hands or more bluffs)

Sure, flat more often OOP and play more pots giving me position - how is that exploitation?
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Old 11-11-2009, 11:19 PM   #11
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Re: Defending 3-Bets IP

He will 3bet his strong range oop.
And he shouldnīt be 3betting 57s oop anyway.
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Old 11-11-2009, 11:19 PM   #12
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Re: Defending 3-Bets IP

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Originally Posted by wishiewish View Post
He will 3bet his strong range oop.
And he shouldnīt be 3betting 57s oop anyway.

What the **** are you talking about?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wishiewish View Post
Ppl will just start to flat you with AQ and Ppl will just start to flat you with AQ and 3bet with 35s..
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Old 11-11-2009, 11:20 PM   #13
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Re: Defending 3-Bets IP

His flatting IP range on the other hand will be stronger and he will also be able to bluff raise flops more often with his stronger range.(will also have more valuehands because he is not 3betting many stuff he would 3bet normally.)
Then you will have hard time playing postflop oop in single raised pots.
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Old 11-11-2009, 11:21 PM   #14
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Re: Defending 3-Bets IP

I'm asking one question ITT.

When you're IP facing a wide 3bettor from the blinds and are floating 3bets often - are you floating your entire range? Ever 4betting?
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Old 11-11-2009, 11:24 PM   #15
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Re: Defending 3-Bets IP

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Originally Posted by wishiewish View Post
His flatting IP range on the other hand will be stronger and he will also be able to bluff raise flops more often with his stronger range.(will also have more valuehands because he is not 3betting many stuff he would 3bet normally.)
Then you will have hard time playing postflop oop in single raised pots.
Totally different subject. How does this relate to 4bet or fold strategy? If my 4bet strategy stops people from 3betting me IP and they will have to tighten up and resort to a flatting strategy - that's fine. They can't flat me every hand and still have a strong range so I'm playing more pots with position and that's good for me.

Anyway, answer the question ITT or just continue spouting nonsense about exploiting non-existent tendencies or whatever random gibberish is in your head. (And for your sake, get over calling 3bets OOP. It's not profitable. You should 4bet OR fold without position. It's the most +EV line, ask any good reg)
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