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Old 05-31-2012, 09:05 AM   #1
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AKo defence against 3bet

6max NL50 game, effective stack 100bb. Hero (UTG) raises 3xbb with AKo. BTN raises 9xBB. What is best Heros response against a)nit, b)LAG, c)reg. Pot-sized raise, all-in or flat call? And what would be best play in 10NL game?
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Old 05-31-2012, 09:33 AM   #2
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Re: AKo defence against 3bet

versus

a) nit: fold
b) LAG: 4-bet/get it in*
c) reg: 4-bet/fold*

*same sizing: 2.5x

tbh i currently play 10NL and haven't played 50NL in over a year so maybe I shouldn't even be posting in this thread.
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Old 05-31-2012, 09:44 AM   #3
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Re: AKo defence against 3bet

4ball/call off vs all of them (readless just based on stats).

Maybe call vs nit if hes they have low 3bet %
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:41 AM   #4
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Re: AKo defence against 3bet

a) call
b)4b/call
c) 4b/call

4b/folding in these situations is just burning $$$
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Old 05-31-2012, 07:44 PM   #5
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Re: AKo defence against 3bet

Quote:
Originally Posted by FineWan View Post
a) call
b)4b/call
c) 4b/call

4b/folding in these situations is just burning $$$
Actually I'd say that much of the time calling a 3bet OOP without a made hand is burning money. I agree most with the first response by Franchise804. I mean, calling the 3bet can be justified given the right dynamic, but a lot of the time I think your gonna have to c/f the flop unless you hit an A or K, and even some of those times that you hit, you're getting coolered anyway. 4bet or fold is typically a much better way of dealing with 3bets pre while OOP. The power of position is simply enormous.
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Old 05-31-2012, 07:57 PM   #6
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Re: AKo defence against 3bet

Quote:
Originally Posted by FineWan View Post
a) call
b)4b/call
c) 4b/call

4b/folding in these situations is just burning $$$
+1
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Old 05-31-2012, 08:26 PM   #7
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Re: AKo defence against 3bet

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Originally Posted by Mhnds View Post
+1
and yeah, if you're gonna 4bet with AK, you gotta be willing to get it in, I agree. If you don't, you won't be able to balance your 4bet bluff range. Except at micro stakes, 4bet bluffing is usually a pretty bad idea haha.
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:07 PM   #8
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Re: AKo defence against 3bet

"Nit" is such a large category. This really depends on his 3bet stats. If he has a 3% 3bet stat, I think it's a fold. He's less than 3% to an UTG raise, so he's probably 3betting with only JJ+. Probably not even 3betting with AK.

If he's a higher 3bet "nit" -- like 16/12/6% 3bet -- then I think it's a 4bet/call.

Against everyone else, it's a 4bet/call. I don't really see a difference between 10NL and 50NL for this specific situation.
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Old 06-01-2012, 02:18 AM   #9
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Re: AKo defence against 3bet

Depends on the player. I hate AK pre, can be a tough hand to play and calling off a 5B always sucks vs non retarded/overly aggro players.

Vs real nits (let say with a 2% 3B range), folding to the 3B is often fine.

Vs regs, folding pre can be fine (depending on the bread of player and his stats. EG: One who has himself a very low 3B stat vs UTG opens) as can 4B/Calling

Vs Lags and fish, Im happy stacking off for 100bb without too much thought.

But anyway, Generally: Folding = 4B/C > Calling (and playing OOP) >>> 4B/Folding (even though im guilty of doing this a few too many times)
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Old 06-01-2012, 02:19 AM   #10
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Re: AKo defence against 3bet

usually you'll be 4b/calling it off vs all. nit is very broad description. if you mean player who never 3b bluffs and only 3bets KK+ then yeah 4b/calling it off wouldn't be so hot. im sure a case can be made to call vs the nit but too broad of a description as i said
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Old 06-01-2012, 07:00 AM   #11
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Re: AKo defence against 3bet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franchise804 View Post
c) reg: 4-bet/fold*
cant believe there are people who still doing that. This is mb one of the biggest leaks. it's burning money
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Old 06-01-2012, 12:45 PM   #12
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Re: AKo defence against 3bet

So 4bet/call pre OOP. Ok, I have been doing that, but what do you do when your 4bet is just called and you are OOP?

I have running into more situations where I raise AK UTG or HJ, BTN 3bets, I 4bet to 25bb and villain calls. Flop comes something low like 369r. Cbet here standard? In a 4bet pot, a cbet pretty much commits your stack; does it not?. Checking says "I have AK and missed" and let's them steal.

So what do you guys do in 4bet pots post flop against the same villains mentioned in OP?
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Old 06-01-2012, 12:57 PM   #13
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Re: AKo defence against 3bet

Never 4bet/folding AK. What a money pit.
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Old 06-01-2012, 01:16 PM   #14
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Re: AKo defence against 3bet

Quote:
Originally Posted by COKE_MAN View Post
So 4bet/call pre OOP. Ok, I have been doing that, but what do you do when your 4bet is just called and you are OOP?

I have running into more situations where I raise AK UTG or HJ, BTN 3bets, I 4bet to 25bb and villain calls. Flop comes something low like 369r. Cbet here standard? In a 4bet pot, a cbet pretty much commits your stack; does it not?. Checking says "I have AK and missed" and let's them steal.

So what do you guys do in 4bet pots post flop against the same villains mentioned in OP?
I struggle in this spot too. One solution would be to 4 bet bigger making calling less palatable but that allows the villian to play perfectly by shoving his value hands knowing we are committed and folding his air.

It might be ok to check nearly your entire range here including overpairs. Then you can check raise when you want to get it in (overpairs, flush draws, etc) and c/f when you miss.
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