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AA, 4bet, horrible pot AA, 4bet, horrible pot

06-15-2017 , 05:52 PM
partypoker - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): 129.68 BB
SB: 137.4 BB (VPIP: 25.69, PFR: 18.06, 3Bet Preflop: 9.01, Hands: 294)
BB: 100 BB (VPIP: 21.58, PFR: 16.32, 3Bet Preflop: 5.13, Hands: 194)
UTG: 117.08 BB (VPIP: 23.64, PFR: 20.11, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 380)
MP: 196.92 BB (VPIP: 22.38, PFR: 18.18, 3Bet Preflop: 8.46, Hands: 290)
CO: 193.56 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 10.00, Hands: 31)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has A A

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 2 BB, SB raises to 7 BB, fold, Hero raises to 16 BB, SB calls 9 BB

Flop: (33 BB, 2 players) 9 T J
SB checks, Hero bets 14 BB, SB calls 14 BB

Turn: (61 BB, 2 players) 4
SB checks, Hero bets 38 BB, SB raises to 107.4 BB and is all-in, fold,

I think this should be check back on the flop and then maybe a calldown, depending on the runout?
AA, 4bet, horrible pot Quote
06-15-2017 , 06:48 PM
What about checking the turn? You're going to get jammed on alot of the time when villain is on a draw hoping to get some hands to fold. Other times its sets and straights. Going to be hard to know where you're at and you'll have to call it off once you're priced in. Prefer a c/c ott here perosonally.

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AA, 4bet, horrible pot Quote
06-15-2017 , 07:56 PM
On such a wet flop bet bigger otf, then you wouldn't need to overbet-shove the turn in order to get max value.
As played just jam the turn. If you bet so small, just call it off.
AA, 4bet, horrible pot Quote
06-16-2017 , 12:49 PM
What worse hand do we expect him to call with when we jam the turn?
AA, 4bet, horrible pot Quote
06-17-2017 , 06:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MrPiter
What worse hand do we expect him to call with when we jam the turn?
KK (6), QQ (6), AK (1 - of hearts), AJ (6), KJ (up to 11), QJ (up to 11), QT (up to 11), J8s (3), generally heart and diamond flushdraws, generally Qx combos

If you add these combos up, we have 53 combos.
If we disregard some of them, because villain would fold part of it preflop, say these are about 40 combos, now lets compare them to the better combos villain could have:

KQ (16), JT (up to 9), J9s (2, unlikely), T9s (3), 87s (up to 4, unlikely), Q8s (up to 4, but very unlikely), JJ (3), TT (3), 99 (3)

If you add these up, we have only 47 combos alltogether. Disregard like 10 of them due villain folding these hands preflop, we have like 37.

I know this is a very rough guesstimation, but it seems to me that villain has more worse hands than AA that could do the call, than better hands.
AA, 4bet, horrible pot Quote
06-17-2017 , 08:56 AM
Dont think that V has many overpairs or AK after pre action. Terrible flop for AA, agree with check back flop.
AA, 4bet, horrible pot Quote
06-19-2017 , 01:57 PM
Villains range pf is just as wide as his 3 bet range-bc u almost minraise- which is somewhat wide as its btn-blind fight. So assigning him a narrow range and say he wouldn't play this or that in a 4 bet pot is wrong.
I normally wouldn't expect somebody to check a strong made hand twice oop on this draw-heavy-as-**** board. unless its a straight for the most part, especially since your sizing on the flop is so small. Ofc its a possibility villain decided to be tricky with 2p or set but not very likely, not sure if its worth it either.
I think most of the time its draw/pair+a draw types of hands that play out like this esp on scary boards like that. KTd QTd could very well play like this as well as a ton of other combo draws and KQ as well. Rarely 2p or set too, I guess.
I would call this turn and expect to be good often enough for the call to be right.
AA, 4bet, horrible pot Quote
06-20-2017 , 04:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeybusiness_
Villains range pf is just as wide as his 3 bet range-bc u almost minraise- which is somewhat wide as its btn-blind fight. .
When do I minraise? You mean my 4-bet preflop? I used 2.3x sizing which I think is reasonable especially in position.
AA, 4bet, horrible pot Quote
06-20-2017 , 06:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeybusiness_
Villains range pf is just as wide as his 3 bet range-bc u almost minraise- which is somewhat wide as its btn-blind fight.
If you're one of those people who 4bet 3x the 3bet your 4bet sizing is probably indicative of a larger value range and thus you wont have 4bet bluffs and therefore can be exploited somewhat I think.

Also if villian is 3betting a super wide range, continuing to the 4bet OOP will still narrow a lot of his range

I actually think this is a nice hand to have in our check back range flop to balance given we dont block Ah allowing him to have those bluffs if he decides for turn/river. If he doesnt bet then we start betting turn and river for good value sizing.
AA, 4bet, horrible pot Quote
06-20-2017 , 08:17 PM
Definitely checking somewhere, not really a spot where we're thrilled to get our stack in. Putting half of it in and folding isn't great either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by siebenacht
KK (6), QQ (6), AK (1 - of hearts), AJ (6), KJ (up to 11), QJ (up to 11), QT (up to 11), J8s (3), generally heart and diamond flushdraws, generally Qx combos

If you add these combos up, we have 53 combos.
If we disregard some of them, because villain would fold part of it preflop, say these are about 40 combos, now lets compare them to the better combos villain could have:

KQ (16), JT (up to 9), J9s (2, unlikely), T9s (3), 87s (up to 4, unlikely), Q8s (up to 4, but very unlikely), JJ (3), TT (3), 99 (3)
These are incredibly optimistic ranges.
AA, 4bet, horrible pot Quote
06-20-2017 , 08:40 PM
Considering 130xbb stacks I would like to make it 18bb pre.
And considering the stacks I would also like a flop check.
AA, 4bet, horrible pot Quote
06-20-2017 , 08:49 PM
bigger pre
agree check back flop
AA, 4bet, horrible pot Quote
06-20-2017 , 09:15 PM
but does V really x/c monsters otf? think you're ahead if he just x/c flop
AA, 4bet, horrible pot Quote
06-20-2017 , 09:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MrPiter
When do I minraise? You mean my 4-bet preflop? I used 2.3x sizing which I think is reasonable especially in position.
My bad deffo not a minraise. Still I think many hands stick around though, not that you don't want that, but in regards to his possible holdings that check shove turn.
AA, 4bet, horrible pot Quote

      
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