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Old 06-29-2012, 10:49 PM   #1
centurion
 
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[4nl]KQs vs 4bet from aggro villian

Hey guys... tough spot here. This guy is really aggro, w/ a 3bet of 13.6% and a 4bet of 20% (15 opportunities). His fold3b is 60% (15 opportunities). He's constantly 3betting/squeezing when on the BTN or in the Blinds. What's the best play here?

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.04 BB (6 handed) - Poker Hand Converter from PokerConverter.com

saw flop

BB ($4)
UTG ($1.42)
MP ($4.02)
CO ($4.04)
Button ($4)
Hero (SB) ($4.40)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q, K
3 folds, Button bets $0.08, Hero raises $0.24, 1 fold, Button raises $0.60, Hero??

Meant to make my 3bet 4x instead of 3x here, so that was my bad. As played, what do we do here? I feel that folding is too weak because this player is aggro and this seems pretty normal for him. Flatting a 4bet is just ugly... so that leaves 5betting. 5bet shove? 5bet to ~$1.80 and go with any flop?

I'll be the first to admit, I'm not the best when it comes to seeing this type of aggression. Don't see this too often down at 4nl. Thanks in advanced...
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Old 06-29-2012, 10:59 PM   #2
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Re: [4nl]KQs vs 4bet from aggro villian

Although he's probably a bit wider than 13% in this situation I'd still fold here:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 47.536% 44.23% 03.30% 115119699 8601296.00 { KhQh }
Hand 1: 52.464% 49.16% 03.30% 127947917 8601296.00 { 77+, A8s+, K9s+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KJo+, QJo }

You're 48% against his 3 bet range, and you'll be OOP every street. Find better spots. He can fold any KQ board and play vs your broadway with his holding to perfection in position.
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Old 06-29-2012, 11:06 PM   #3
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Re: [4nl]KQs vs 4bet from aggro villian

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archide View Post
Although he's probably a bit wider than 13% in this situation I'd still fold here:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 47.536% 44.23% 03.30% 115119699 8601296.00 { KhQh }
Hand 1: 52.464% 49.16% 03.30% 127947917 8601296.00 { 77+, A8s+, K9s+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KJo+, QJo }

You're 48% against his 3 bet range, and you'll be OOP every street. Find better spots. He can fold any KQ board and play vs your broadway with his holding to perfection in position.
Thanks for stoving that. I just hate folding here because of how aggro he is, but then again, I seem to overvalue my hands sometime. We folding this 100% you think? We ever just shoving here? Like I said, these are definitely spots I need to learn, so all of this is good info.
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Old 06-29-2012, 11:23 PM   #4
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Re: [4nl]KQs vs 4bet from aggro villian

In practice I shove here at times, in theory I should fold them all.

Hope that helps lol
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Old 06-29-2012, 11:40 PM   #5
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Re: [4nl]KQs vs 4bet from aggro villian

I'd flat pre and probably 3b/ 5b shove TT +, ak. Maybe wider.
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Old 06-30-2012, 12:26 AM   #6
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Re: [4nl]KQs vs 4bet from aggro villian

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gracias View Post
I'd flat pre and probably 3b/ 5b shove TT +, ak. Maybe wider.
Guess flatting is always an option as well. I was just 3betting for value here.
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Old 06-30-2012, 12:26 AM   #7
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Re: [4nl]KQs vs 4bet from aggro villian

I think 3betting this preflop vs this opponent is a mistake.

Against someone who 4bets so much your adjustment should be to not 3bet for thin value, or with air.
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Old 06-30-2012, 12:28 AM   #8
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Re: [4nl]KQs vs 4bet from aggro villian

On another note - if people are 4bet bluffing at 4NL then the games are just getting ridiculous. What happened to the days of: raise -> flop top pair -> stack a fish
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Old 07-02-2012, 01:51 PM   #9
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Re: [4nl]KQs vs 4bet from aggro villian

IMO flatting pre here is best. I'll 3-bet KQs for value against players who I know will call me with dominated / worse hands and give up easily on flops, and who aren't likely to 4-bet. This villain seems super aggro, so I think flatting works nicely. KQs is a great hand, and you have a fair chunk of his button opening range dominated and your hand plays great postflop since it can hit so many things. Also, since he's so aggro leaving him the initiative makes it more likely he'll bluff off a decent amount of money to you when you hit.

As played, you basically have to fold. KQs is pretty similar to a hand like TJs against any reasonable 4-betting range in that its a great hand to play post-flop with implied odds, but not so great to get in since you're often behind. Flatting is super bad OOP, and shoving might get him to fold a few bluffs but he'll likely call you many hands you're flipping against and with all hands that crush you.
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Old 07-02-2012, 06:11 PM   #10
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Re: [4nl]KQs vs 4bet from aggro villian

Pre is just dependent on BB though. If we were in the BB I would definately be flatting but 3betting the SB is probs better if BB is squeezing a lot, against most I would probably flat here though.

As played I'd fold
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Old 07-02-2012, 08:27 PM   #11
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Re: [4nl]KQs vs 4bet from aggro villian

Quote:
4bet of 20% (15 opportunities).
flat pre, sucks when we get 4 bet. I hate turning this hand into a 5bet bluff.

very rare to see people 4 nl (regs) call our 5bet jam with worse here

3bet 5bet jam hands like 22+/Ax suited.
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