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2nl zoom bluff 2nl zoom bluff

04-24-2017 , 08:44 PM
PokerStars - $0.02 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

BTN: 314 BB (VPIP: 14.29, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)
SB: 100 BB (VPIP: 16.00, PFR: 12.00, 3Bet Preflop: 14.29, Hands: 25)
Hero (BB): 168.5 BB
UTG: 124.5 BB (VPIP: 13.11, PFR: 9.84, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 62)
MP: 93.5 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)
CO: 149 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 17.50, 3Bet Preflop: 16.67, Hands: 42)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 4s As
UTG raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 2 BB

Flop : (6.5 BB, 2 players) 8d 6c 3s
Hero checks, UTG bets 3.5 BB, Hero raises to 12 BB, UTG calls 8.5 BB

Turn : (30.5 BB, 2 players) 2s
Hero bets 24 BB, UTG calls 24 BB

River : (78.5 BB, 2 players) 3c
Hero bets 87 BB, UTG calls 85.5 BB and is all-in

Hero shows 4s As (One Pair, Threes)
(Pre 33%, Flop 19%, Turn 32%)

UTG shows Qd Qs (Two Pair, Queens and Threes)
(Pre 67%, Flop 81%, Turn 68%)

UTG wins 241 BB

reasoning here is I have a ton of value combos on the flop, bluffing some suited aces here lets me have bluffs when some of my straights get there. (like 54 on the turn) Just wondering what better players think of this. Sometimes I stop bluffs half way though vs call heavy opponents. But I had AA blocked so I figured this was okay.

I don't like my turn sizing in retrospect, I think I should use a bigger size to make the river jam more natural. As played maybe a pot sized bet would of been better since some players at these stakes seem to think over bets are bluff heavy. Anyways always welcome any advice or opinions.
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04-24-2017 , 09:05 PM
Check fold flop?

I might be wrong, as I'm new, but that's what I would do. I cut out almost all my bluffs at nl2 and it's helped a ton.
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04-24-2017 , 09:42 PM
Small sample, but in general you don't want to be bluffing 13/9 guy on such a safe runout, or even at all really

+1 x/f flop
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04-24-2017 , 09:46 PM
That is pretty standard, I would give up on the turn if I don't pick up equity. At 2NL maybe you can be more exploitable and exclusively do this bluff with 79s. Its fine it just might get called more often when they have overpairs at 2NL.
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04-24-2017 , 10:02 PM
Don't bluff in 2nl. Also don't limp pre flop and especially don't do both at the same time :O
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04-24-2017 , 10:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_poker
That is pretty standard
No way is this standard vs the nittiest of 2nl nitregs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dymond
Also don't limp pre flop
OP didn't limp, he defended the BB. A little loose vs this villain though imo

Last edited by whitemares; 04-24-2017 at 10:15 PM. Reason: phrasing
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04-24-2017 , 10:41 PM
With 2 spades OTF i would be with you, but bluffing in such marginal spots will lose you lots of money, i would play it safe and fold there. Not many hands on him but he looks pretty nitty, when he called your raise flop and called turn, and the river card didn't change nothing, I don't think whatever he has will fold
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04-24-2017 , 11:12 PM
I've only got 30k hands in at 2nl zoom. But so far I think there are two types of tight players, the ones that fold, and the ones that never do.

I definitely c/f turn without such a perfect card. But with this line if my opponent never folds I still have 32% to stack them on rivers. After working on this spot a bit today I thought that at least in theory, it was slightly winning. But what am I doing on an Ace river? try and stack KK,QQ.. probably not. Only using 79s here increases equity a bunch, so i'll have to agree that c/f flop is better.

I think bluffing at 2nl can be dangerous. But I also think it's underrated. I'm sure never bluffing is a winning strategy. I just think it's winning less. If your opponents are ever folding when you have the top of your range you should have bluffs, right? and there are many nitty players at 2nlz.
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04-24-2017 , 11:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neponc
I think bluffing at 2nl can be dangerous. But I also think it's underrated. I'm sure never bluffing is a winning strategy. I just think it's winning less. If your opponents are ever folding when you have the top of your range you should have bluffs, right? and there are many nitty players at 2nlz.
Bluffing will always be dangerous because we assume we are losing at the specific moment we bluff. My main point here would be selecting bluffs more carefully, going for the ones with the highest equity + fold equity, and being careful not to bluff too much.
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04-24-2017 , 11:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neponc
I've only got 30k hands in at 2nl zoom. But so far I think there are two types of tight players, the ones that fold, and the ones that never do.
You're right about this to an extent. Players with incredibly tight ranges such as this villain though are the ones that basically won't ever fold, because their ranges tend to be so strong. You can relentlessly steal the blinds of these players, but you need to exercise some caution when these players continue.

You'd be a lot better off trying to bluff a 19/14 player than a 13/9 player. That's tight even by 2nl nitreg standards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neponc
After working on this spot a bit today I thought that at least in theory, it was slightly winning.
I could do a bunch of EV calculations to show you that it's not, but I'm extremely confident in just telling you that it's not in this particular spot. You don't have to take my word for it, but if you do the EV calcs yourself, or just do this enough times in this exact spot, you'll probably come to the same conclusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neponc
But what am I doing on an Ace river? try and stack KK,QQ.. probably not.
Should be checking on an ace river and hoping to see a showdown. This villain is literally never betting with worse so you can comfortably x/f.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neponc
I think bluffing at 2nl can be dangerous. But I also think it's underrated. I'm sure never bluffing is a winning strategy. I just think it's winning less. If your opponents are ever folding when you have the top of your range you should have bluffs, right? and there are many nitty players at 2nlz.
You can steal blinds and cbet the flop all you want, or sometimes on turns when you have a strong draw and possibly some other factor in your favor. You need some strong reads to be able to profitably make multi-street bluffs at 2nl though.

edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magyc
My main point here would be selecting bluffs more carefully, going for the ones with the highest equity + fold equity, and being careful not to bluff too much.
+1, well said
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04-24-2017 , 11:54 PM
It is most winning to not give away your stacks.
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04-25-2017 , 11:16 AM
I can attest with much certainty, that this is a fine example of FPS.

First, in order for this play to work you would have to count on V knowing you raise this dry flop with all sets which he can't know if all he has on you is 60 hands.

Second, picking bluffs like this should target the bottom of V's range so you have some FE, not when he is UTG where he is likely to station the crap out out of you with 99+ or he himself has 88 and you're running into the nuts.

Third, when V calls turn, you can he pretty certain he has an overpair to the board and he's not floating you with K high or getting sticky with 77 and therefore should shut down your bluff attempt otr and save it for a better spot. FWIW I think over shoving turn might have worked better with your hand specifically.

Fourth, I think someone else said 97s or 75s would work as better bluffs in theory and I agree somewhat. With those hands you can xc flop, xr turn then bomb river to credibly represent 45s, 88, 66, 33 or even 22.

Lastly, lol xf flop vs a 13/9 cause he's probably never bluffing and probably never folding to your line. I would venture a guess and say if I eliminated a lot of obvious FPS spew over the last 235k hands, I'd be playing 10 maybe 25NL by now lol. Focus on value from these positions and bluffs where the ranges are at their widest and more likely to work and you'll be fine. Don't wait another 100k hands before you figure it out though. .
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