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20NL - Top of range vs wtf sizing and bad runout 20NL - Top of range vs wtf sizing and bad runout

03-28-2017 , 09:56 AM
iPoker, €0.10/€0.20 FAST No Limit Hold'em, 6 Players

UTG: €27.19 (135.9bb)
MP: €23.09 (115.4bb)
Hero (CO): €27.81 (139bb)
BTN: €18.28 (91.4bb)

SB: €20 (100bb)
BB: €23.21 (116bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with QQ
2 folds, Hero raises to €0.50, BTN calls, fold, BB calls

Flop: (€1.60) 3K3 (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, BTN bets €5, BB folds, Hero calls

Turn: (€11.60) 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets €0.20, Hero calls

River: (€12) A (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets €12.58 and is all-in, Hero calls

Villain is unknown. I hate the runout and don't know what to make of the sizing, but QQ is the top of my range. I don't think I play any Ax this way and would likely cbet this flop with all my Kx and 3x, but it feels like spew to call down here
20NL - Top of range vs wtf sizing and bad runout Quote
03-28-2017 , 10:06 AM
Fold flop to the 3x overbet?

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20NL - Top of range vs wtf sizing and bad runout Quote
03-28-2017 , 10:10 AM
Fold flop, ap fold river. what are you doing anyway? you called down just because QQ is the top of your range??? Very very bad reasoning.
20NL - Top of range vs wtf sizing and bad runout Quote
03-28-2017 , 11:11 AM
I guess you can have KK or sometimes AK, though I think flop is a fold. V's line looks like quads or some random bluff. If I do arrive on this river w/ QQ I guess it'd a sigh fold for me
20NL - Top of range vs wtf sizing and bad runout Quote
03-28-2017 , 11:15 AM
Quote:
I hate the runout and don't know what to make of the sizing, but QQ is the top of my range. I don't think I play any Ax this way
Think about why this is, and then think about whether you still want to make some attempt at theory on the river.

Also, check/fold flop.
20NL - Top of range vs wtf sizing and bad runout Quote
03-28-2017 , 11:47 AM
Just fwiw, I definitely didn't enjoy calling the flop and the river and this is the most questionable hand I've played in a long time, but is a strange sizing good enough reason to overfold vs an unknown?

It doesn't make any sense for any hand to use this sizing on that board texture, so maybe it's a poor estimation of mine to think that a player using this sizing is probably prone to have some spew % of random air.

But yeah, perhaps I can just fold flop and make life easier for myself - I'm not sure if that's good poker reasoning or not.

The reason I don't like my call on the river is purely because the A can improve some of that random air.
20NL - Top of range vs wtf sizing and bad runout Quote
03-28-2017 , 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by btthywrsooted
Fold flop, ap fold river. what are you doing anyway? you called down just because QQ is the top of your range??? Very very bad reasoning.
I don't think it's a bad reasoning vs an unknown. However, it may show a problem with my checking range that I'm in this situation with an undesirable hand.
20NL - Top of range vs wtf sizing and bad runout Quote
03-28-2017 , 11:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanteHaversham
I don't think it's a bad reasoning vs an unknown. However, it may show a problem with my checking range that I'm in this situation with an undesirable hand.


Just because you are forced to fold QQ to a 3x pot bet doesn't mean you have to over adjust


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20NL - Top of range vs wtf sizing and bad runout Quote
03-28-2017 , 11:57 AM
Okay, so the problem here is that you're thinking about balancing and optimal lines vs. a 91bb fish at 20nl. You're compounding this by then saying you think he's prone to have some spew. These things are incongruent to some degree.

You're also thinking about this far too late in the hand. Don't start worrying about being capped on the river when your flop range involves no checks with Kx. It's two streets too late for that.

Flop couldn't be a more clear check/fold. It's a 3x pot bet.
20NL - Top of range vs wtf sizing and bad runout Quote
03-28-2017 , 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladesman87
Okay, so the problem here is that you're thinking about balancing and optimal lines vs. a 91bb fish at 20nl. You're compounding this by then saying you think he's prone to have some spew. These things are incongruent to some degree.

You're also thinking about this far too late in the hand. Don't start worrying about being capped on the river when your flop range involves no checks with Kx. It's two streets too late for that.

Flop couldn't be a more clear check/fold. It's a 3x pot bet.
Yeah, that is contradictory of me actually. I do think that a player using this sizing will probably have a spew range too, but then I probably don't have to be concerned about overfolding vs that kind of player either.

I thought about my range on the flop, which is where I realised that this is the best hand I have (after KK). I think my range is going to be fine on the flop vs a more 'normal' size bet but I got confused about what to do vs this size. Still learning here
20NL - Top of range vs wtf sizing and bad runout Quote
03-28-2017 , 12:17 PM
Again, this is what I mean by remembering why you're doing what you're doing. Because if you're never checking Kx on the flop then you're completely unbalancing yourself. Which is absolutely fine because there's a 90bb guy in there, but don't then get to the river and think "Oh, I'm unbalanced, capped, and now I have to make some absurd hero call vs. this fish".
20NL - Top of range vs wtf sizing and bad runout Quote
03-28-2017 , 12:29 PM
I get what you're saying, you're absolutely right.

Thank you, everyone.
20NL - Top of range vs wtf sizing and bad runout Quote

      
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