*sigh* Is this somehow close on the turn?

I'm folding i think unless you have a reason to believe he is 3 betting light - can't see that you are better much of the time.

Have no idea y v b so much ott, they just make it, so easy for u to f. If they b 2/3 pot id c

I think it's probably close. When you call his 3b and flop, you have a lot of overpair combos and flush draws in your range that he might try to barrel you off of when the turn bricks. He also has some flush draws here, and his value hands really only consist of overpairs to your tens and maybe 99/A5s. If you call, any overcard puts you in a tough spot oop, and if you jam, you might get a fold and deny equity from draws and overs, but you're probably not getting called by worse very often. I think folding is fine though, it's a pretty tough spot and probably better just to muck it and move on. Just my thoughts, hopefully someone better can give you a more definitive answer

There are many over pairs than two high cards in his ranges here,I will fold on turn most of time I think

Pre-Flop: In my opinion, I'd first open bigger than 2.5x. I typically raise 3-3.5 with a hand I want to play in micro stakes, make the fun players pay to see a flop. I do not like your 3bet call pre. I think Ts are strong enough to be put in your 4bet range, especially against a deep button. I would raise this to about 3.40$ with the intention of folding to a 5bet (depending on the stats I have on this guy, possibly 6bet shoving vs an aggro player). The 3bet button could have any suited AK, AQ, AJ, AT, any small pocket pairs, and of course the better stuff like JJ + in his range. Do you have any stats on this guy? How often is he 3betting? How often on the button? What is his 3bet sizing? Has he been using his stack aggressively? Does he fold to 4bets?

Flop: Now that you're OOP and gave the button the aggression by just calling his 3bet, I think you have to check raise the flop and see what he does. He will put you on AQ, AJ, AT, KQ, KJs, small PP by that 3bet call pre, or maybe some suited connectors (also depends on how often you are opening) AK or any JJ+ would certainly 4bet preflop (and I suggest putting 8+ in this range sometimes to balance your 4bet range). His 2/3 pot Cbet with 2 diamonds suggests he has a big draw, an overpair, or a set, and we can put rare bluff Cbets in his range (pocket 22, 44, 66, 77, 88 are also cbetting). By you check raising pot, you can isolate his range. Check raising pot gives you more information. Consider a pot bet here, say 3.80$ ish. This will tell the button you are looking to put money in the hand so you can have a pot bet behind by the river to shove with. The button call is likely a draw or smaller pocket pairs like 66, 77, 88, and a re-raise of your check raise would suggest he has a set or an overpair. Of course he could have bluffs here, but they would be relatively rare, with you opening preflop and check raising the flop, he has to put you on a strong hand. This will also eliminate your dilemma on the turn.


Turn: As played, you made the right move. You don't need to put anymore money in the pot because you do not have enough information on the buttons range. By putting in another 4$ you are committing 1/4 your stack with a potential pot bet on the river for 2/3 of your stack. Good fold.

All in all, put more pressure on with 10's. This is a dangerous hand, but the flop could not really have been much better for you. Backdoor flush draw with an overpair is very strong on the flop. Cash game, put the pressure on.

What an essay! So many game mistakes in that! So much written for so little

Please share the mistakes rather than just calling me out. I have no problem admitting I am wrong, that's why I am here. But this is microstakes, not 100 or 200nl. Most players are willing to call off with almost anything, especially AK, AQs, and 88/99. 4betting pre flop is not out of the question, especially OOP.

Also, why would you just check call the flop and fold the turn to a 5 that changes absolutely nothing to the hand? His bet is larger, sure, but this is the position you put yourself in by not putting some pressure on with a solid hand pre and an overpair on the flop. I'd much rather loose 2-3 dollars to gain information or take it down early, than invest later. TT isn't a great showdown hand

You are going to tell me you wouldn't take the same line as the villian with 88 or 77? What are the odds you have a 9 in your hand? Hero just calls pre flop, suggesting he doesn't have a pair over the board... You make a huge mistake folding 10's here vs 80% of the buttons 3bet range. He is not raising any 2-6pp, the bottom of his 3bet range are probably 7s+, as well as KJ+suited, and the more premium hands...

Why are you 3betting so many good calling hands and then assuming others are doing the same? Also lol at paying for information, not legit reasoning.

OP nh, don't think we know enough in this spot to call a bet that large, I probably fold here vs unknown.

It is not as easy to have a pair /set as you suggest it is. I would be much more skeptical that a player on the button with 300+ BB has T's beat than you are. I'd much rather have control of the pot OOP to keep the pot smaller. We would hear from a made hand on a turn raise, and only good regs could wait to the river to raise, which would be another fold. Again, you have an overpair here, you are only afraid because you have no information on this guy and that was your choice.

When you 4bet at the micros the guy is rarely continuing without a hand that has you beat/or flipping vs.

Think what you like at the micros, they rarely 5bet light haha.

Preflop, a smooth call is good here. 4betting here could also be profitable dependent on stats and position, but we don't have either. Given he 3bet us in position we can narrow his range (without stats we must assume) to AA/KK/QQ/JJ/AK/AQ and maybe 99/88/KQ on the low end, but that's pushing it. The flop is pretty dry except flush draws. The check call was interesting given his range. This could work if you intend to semi bluff a diamond on the turn, but aside from that, I'd dictate this a fold on the flop. Assuming his range is the above, we're simply dominated by too many hands, and most of the range he doesn't have us dominated on may still be drawing to the nut flush or an overpair on the river.

As for the turn, you made the right choice to fold. I'd definitely call the 3bet hoping to hit a set preflop, but I'd lay it down on the flop unless I had stats or some kind of history with the villain.

Rethinking it a bit. Why not call the 3bet and donk bet out half pot on the flop and see what he does, rather than checking and letting him control the pot? At most you loose another big or two if he raises.

You could donk bet out, would work if villain is holding AK/AQ/KQ but even then it's not a good plan given he still has outs to a flush (if suited) and two overs to a fairly dry flop. If he has any other hand within his range we assigned, he's obviously 3betting your donk bet (might even 3bet you with the low end of his range including 99/88) and you'd have to fold anyways.

Call turn.

im folding pre. I always 4 bet or fold OOP

+1, played well up to the turn

Because it's trivially easy for villain to play perfectly against this line.

Same for when you said check/raise.

It achieves nothing.

[QUOTE=DogfortheKid.[/QUOTE]

Never B or R for information ever. B for value or as a bluff. Its a weird one to explain but you'll get it after a while.

PRE: 4B/F TT is turning your hand into a bluff, now TT has value, so why bluff with it? If your going to 4B a value hand make sure your willing to C a 5B. If your going to 4B bluff a PP then do it with low PP's, like 44

OTF: Again XR TT turns your hand into a bluff, only better calls, and you push out all weaker hands you get value from. hand like 9x, 88, 77 and other random bluffs may be willing to CB & barrel turn. Again I would only XR for value (willing to shove) or as a bluff.

I didnt mean to sound rude with my initial response, but try not to ramble on too much imo. Your entire though process doesnt need to be in a thread.

I'll hazard a go at it.

When you raise for information you're not necessarily gaining more "information". You're simply extending assumptions that you don't know to be true. For example, you donk for information and get raised. You don't actually get any confirmation that he can't bluff you here, you merely assume it. Maybe villain correctly reads your donk bet as weak because he understands your range. Maybe he just value jams much thinner than you expect because of this. Now, much of our game is based on inference from population and history, but in many spots the "information" gained by making an odd bet is no better than the information by checking. If he checks behind, we also gain valuable information.

The second point is that betting for information generally ignores your hand and range. Why do you want to find out that you're behind instead of allowing him to play a range of hands you do much better against?

Let's say that information betting actually does serve its purpose and so villain only continues against a donk bet or check/raise with hands that have enough equity against TT (or have it crushed). How can villain make a mistake here? Even if we gained information about his current hand, that does us no favours if villain isn't making a mistake. In this situation, we find out that we're behind, and don't like it. Or, we find out that we're ahead and win the minimum. Neither of these situations is good for us even if we read villain correctly after the fact.

call turn and usually fold river. Would be closer to a fold 100bb deep