How do you adjust your turn/river play against habitual slowplayers? I'm talking about the very passive players who c/c the flop, c/c the turn, check again on the river, then turn over a flopped two-pair or some such. Should I be less willing to bet the turn with TPGK against this type of player?

You should still VB against these players, perhaps valuebet a little less marginal hands and go for pot control mode more often with marginal hands. Sometimes you just cant help it. Any hand that gets a lot out of you slowplaying you were probably gonna lose to anyway and they might actually make less.


Depends on whether they actually are passive chaser or light callers that usually pay you of
.. or they are that special breed that will check all strong hands and bet all weak ones.

The former you just valuebet relentlessly

how much time does it take to be a mod?

We're all grateful that thac is around!

how do you feel about not being able to give custom titles anymore?

you guys are pretty much awesome imo.

It doesn't take *too* long, it's just that you have to constantly be checking the forum, but doing actual stuff takes minimal time.

Also, I was never able to give custom titles and it makes me sad.

oh and i guess ill ask a poker related question too.

in non-showdown pots im basically breakeven.

1. im assuming thats pretty ****ty...is that right?

2. is there any general advice to help me not suck in non-showdown pots? (weee vague and general question! )

Kotkis, Fabian, Blotkis and that crowd all have these incredibely sexy graphs, where they are losers in SD post but huge winners in non-SD pots, but they have skill. You need to improve your handreading to do that, play fewer tables, call out peoples ranges ... be prepared to spew if you decide to go down this road ... insanely difficult

So all in all I'd say it is not ****ty to be BE in non-sd pots if you have a nice winrate, which is all you're measured by after all

Stats are dumb. Just focus on good logic.

FYP4ME...same kinda response?

If you're running a nice winrate despite losing a lot of SDs, you're doing fine ... else ... (same old, same old (blotkis wouldn't be concerned))

Hey, have a few questions i would love answered. Probably pretty easy really.

1.) How do you play 77-99 in EP? (ie. What do you do if you get 3-bet in late position by a 15/10)

2.) How do you play TT-JJ in same position? (I keep on getting it in with JJ, QQ pre and often being behind, should i slow down, set mine pre, maybe even fold?)

3.) If you raise 77-99 pre in late position, called by BB (villian is 15/10), U Pot bet k64r flop, get called. Action on Turn? Should i throw out a second bet here. If so, why?

4.) Min raises are the bane of my life. How do you handle them:
-Pre with hands like 99-JJ, A10-AQo?
-On the flop with bottom pair?
-On flop with overcards?
-On turn with TPTK on dry board?
-On turn with TPTK on drawy board that hasn't hit yet?
-On river with TPTK on Dry board?
-On river with TPTK ON drawy board?


I know these questions are quite vague, but you can use your imagination to fill in the gaps. Thanks for this opportunity. Great for us total noobs.

This is verrrry vague and tough to answer.. but here goes.

1) Raise/folding to 3bet is standard.

2) Can probably even fold these to a 3bet from a 15/10.

3) I mostly just give up if they call on a dry board, unless an ace or our set comes, mostly because they generally have Kx and won't fold.

4) Against most minraises call and re-evaluate isn't bad, and probably the best default line vs minraises with like one overcard to our PP or with TPTK. It really depends on the opponent and board texture.

Will online poker be less profitable in the future, or will there always be born new donks, and old ones will go? What's your vision about this?

(already asked this in the well, but it would be nice to hear the opinions from anyone from you guys)

Thx for doing this,
I really appreciate it.

As long as people have jobs, there'll be new fish.

Who are the poker players and poker writers that you all look up to, and if you could have any player sweat you who would it be and why?

Pokerwriters .. dunno really, but if I'm to single out one player, it would be Bryce ... A fantastic analitical approach coupled with amazing intuition. His 2.6 million profit in 2007 speaks for it self, no? (Even tho I've answered this, it borders on a well type question and really doesn't belong here)

Thanks for response. Jer and Hennerz also seemed interested...the tighter approach (non-SD winnings not where majority of your money is being made) can win thru high stakes?

How often does a bet do what it is intended to do? Often you have a pretty clear idea if you want villain to call or fold when you bet. But how often do you get a call from a worse hand when you are betting for value and how often do you get a fold when you want them to go away? Clearly betting for value with a good hand can´t be a mistake even if a villain folds, because villain often have a range of hands he might call with. But how often do you get the exact desired result?

This is the hopeless questions thread after all.

This is really opponent depending. If you are facing an interesting regular, think of what kind of bet would get you to do what you want him to do against the range you would have or put him on. i.e. if you put him on TPTK, marginal overpair hand, Baluga his ass. If you want the villain to call with 2nd pair, make a bet that doesn't give him the odds to call but he will call if your range includes hands he might be based on previous actions. If its a donk don't worry about it just VB VB VB and worry about little else.

This is a simple question of math. If you put him on the correct range, then you have a number for how often he will fold and how often he will call, so if you know he will have a pair of aces on that Axx board 20% of the time and plays fit/fold, then he will fold 80% of the time.

That doesn't mean he will not have that A three times in a row. (Variance, HOLLA!) Also it doesn't mean that you've put him on the correct range, but putting people on correct ranges is poker skill and what we are all strugling with

Well, thanks for doing this.

I have a more psychological question as well. What was your strategy to overcome this: You have a gameplan for a hand that, e.g., says FOLD when event A happens, and then you call all-in anyway. Most recent example:

I have AKs on the button and I've been nitty (i.e. mostly Gelford's Übernit strategy). I open with a standard raise and SB 3bets. He hasn't been too active, either. I'm 100BBs deep. I think, well, I think he MIGHT be 3betting lightly because of recent history, so let's 4bet to 48 BB and fold when he pushes, because then his range is very narrow. Said and done. He thinks for like 3 seconds, pushes. I literally think "Hm. I call anyway", do so and he turns over AA obviously. I lose and go on mad tilt. Not because I lost, but because I didn't follow my gameplan. That is actually my main reason for tilt: being dumb.

So: was there an aha-moment for you or any strategy that made you a) make gameplans in the first place and not play by the bottom of your pants and b) follow through? I often realize during play that I am actually and literally NOT THINKING during the hands. That is such a huge weakness. How can I overcome it? And I don't have friends that play online poker that could sweat me.

Following your gameplan is part of being good. When you start to run really well for an extended period and learn to trust yourself you will learn to trust your game plans

Hehe ... depends if

1. You pick up some kind of timing tell that makes you believe that ranges are wider than when you originally laid out your gameplan, then you're actually playing good poker

but if

2. You just suddenly find yourself in an existential crisis, FFS I will not be run over ... HYACHAYACHAYCHAY .. screw you! ... I'm going to call etc etc etc .... then see replies to spurios and others. There is no easy fix, imo ... you need to internalize it, learn the feeling, work with it ... read jareds article in the 2+2 magazine a while back btw

How often do you guys use combinatorics at the table? I've been practicing it a bit and find it difficult trying to do it every hand. FWIW I always put my opponent on a range, but when 4-6 tabling I find it hard going to pokerstove to input ranges because of the timer and actions at other tables. When I play live it's less of a problem obv. Do you just go over sessions using pokestove so you have a general idea? Or maybe doing it in your head becomes easier with practice? And at what level do you think it becomes absolutely necessary to employ such a tactic? Thanks!



I use it too little and just go on 'instinct'.

Doing the poker stove/razor/combo thing while playing is doing it wrong, this is an exercise to be done away from the tables. Either while reviewing or simply by inventing/modeling an 'opponent' and then fiddling around with different textures to get a idea of how his ranges connect with the board

Good flops to c-bet in a 3-bet pot?

Flops that hit your big unpaired cards, undercard flops

Flops NOT to c-bet in a 3-bet pot?

Kxx with AQ, A or Kxx with JJ, Jxx with AK, mostly flops you dont hit with big unpaired cards and a read that villain isn't folding a pair


It's a difficult question ,but flops that hit your opponents range are bad to cbet, so if he likes his SCs, cbetting AK into a JT9ss board is rough. Still it is cheap to cbet since you are only betting around half pot, so its better to err on the side of sligthly too much cbetting than the ohter way around (assuming good opponents)

I've been having a difficult time playing against a certain type of player, even though I'm really happy to find them at my table.
They're typically 75/10/0,5 and thus very weak donks. But postflop they tighten up alot, basically they play fit or fold, but with a superwide range. I know they don't fold toppair type of hands, so I try to only bet them for value, but I lost two buy-ins against such type of players which I recall perfectly.
One time I had KK, raise preflop and isolate the loose player, flop is Q44 and I know he'll pay me off with any Q. We get it all in on the flop and he shows J4 and wins.
Yesterday I had a comparable loose preflop players to my direct right and had history on him where he called two streets with TP weak kicker where I had a strong draw, river didn't deliver and we check it down. But I also saw him minraise kinds of hands like that against other opponents at the table. (I'm currently only two tabling to work on my game a bit more). So the session isn't really juicy and I decide to sit out on my next big blind but get AA under the gun, so the donk in the big blind. I raise 4BB and everyone folds and obviously he calls. Flop comes K23 and I know he'll go to showdown every time he has a king here. I cbet, he minraises, I put it in, he calls and shows 23... No help for me and I lose a 120BB pot.

So my question is, how do you extract the most value out of these opponents which are very loose passive preflop, but play fit/fold postflop with an unreadable range and can basicly show up with any hand? It seems to me like I should play any pocketpair against them but beware of the more marginal broadway combinations, especially when they're not deepstacked.

When I have position on them and they limp once more, should I try to isolate with strong suited connectors or wait for better spots?



The minraise can mean a lot of things, so you need a read for when he does that (2pr+ only?, any pair?, draws, bluffs or are bluffs only proper raise or doesn't he ever bluff or ?)

But apart from that, as long as he is just calling valuebet him relentlessly, he will show up with trash more often than not, tho once in a while variance will be cruel and I for one have at times dropped 6BI to such a player. But he is the most profitable player you can find.

And yes, Isolate all day long with a semi-wide range in position .. position lets you check behind on a street or three if you don't like your hand/board, so the 4bb investments it costs is what you can keep it at

Do you think that online players are harder then live casino players?

Yes, no question. At uNL its kinda they are "as bad" but from 100nl up online the online players are miles ahead.

im sorry to quite this, put i was thinking why not cb- with Axx flop? after u are the one who made the 3-bet? even with Kxx ?


ps: sorry for the double post i just saw that

How do you decide whether to c-bet/steal in multi-way pots when you don't hit your hand? For example, I raise in MP, get a caller in the CO/BTN and one in the blinds and get checked to and don't have a made hand. Other times I'll be in position on the BTN and it gets checked to me.

In my opinion cbetting these spots is breakeven so you dont need to sweat it. Say for eg you raise 72o on the BTN and blinds both call. Flop is KT4 no flush draw and they both check. IMO here it doesnt really matter. In your favour you have position, a dry board, and the fact that they both check. Against you you have that there are two of them, you have no hand, and cbetting is expensive. I think its zero sum. In the long run you should probably try and get some cbets in against decent opponents in these spots just to show them that cbetting multiway doesnt just mean you have the nuts - but thats for 100nl+, imo.

Right now, I usually take into account the following things: how fast villains check, board texture, and if the villains are the passive, check-calling type. What other factors should I be taking into account?

See above. Good starting list though.

If someone is sitting on a 6max table 300-400 BB's deep, until shown otherwise, do you read them for being good or just lucky? Are you looking to get into pots with him holding marginal hands or are you looking to play tight and hoping to get all your stack involved?

I never make assumptions. I just treat them as I would treat any other unknown.

Aside from aggression and BR (obviously), are there any major differences between 50NL and say, 200NL+? Are people 3- and 4- betting lighter? More spewwy? Tougher?

People are harder to exploit, which just means they make less mistakes, and the mistakes they make are less obvious. So in turn you have to think harder about how to exploit them, because they probably have a decent idea already of what you are thinking.

How many hands must a sufficient sample size consist of for a 6max cash game player be in order to get critique about his or her game without the 'sample size not big enough' comments?

There is no such thing as a big enough sample. 100k hands is a good start, IMO.

How many buy-ins would you recommend to be a sufficient bankroll at 50NL? Is there a number of buy-ins you should have won (or lost) before you can move up (or down)? I've heard so many different theories and ideal numbers and they all differ from each other.

20 is fine if you are a TAG/solid. If you want to get LAG tricky and spew all over the place then you'll need more, obviously. You should move up and down as you feel comfortable. If youre dumb enough to go broke, you were probably going to go broke eventually anyway, so consider yourself lucky that you didnt waste more time on the whole "poker" thing.

Is your number of buy-in's for a certain level affected by your own style of play? For example, tight players can survive on a smaller BR, whilst loose players need a larger BR to survive?

Yes, see above.

If you decide that you're going to take shots at the next level, do you set yourself a range of buy-ins won until you can do it, or should you just take shots when you feel like it?

Both. Sometimes if Im just playing really well and say I am up 3bi, I will risk 2bi of that win on a quick shot at the next level. Then I know that even if I get coolered, I'll still be up a BI. But if I dont feel anything special that day I'll just keep grinding till I reach a BR goal. For me its 30bi at the current level.

Does anyone else's PT3 crash when they replay a hand from start to finish? Mine does if I click the play button, but not when I click it step by step.

n/a dont have PT3.

With the PT3 HUD on the tables, I see my stats keep dissappearing and reappearing every now and then whilst everyone elses stats stay constantly on the table. Glitch or is there a way to fix it?

head to the PT3 forums I think is the best idea.

Thanks, and great thread too btw.

hi, can you answer the question first asked here cause the answers seems to be not suited for today games:
http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...rt=1&vc=1&nt=6


"i'm not quite sure how to handle getting reraised when i'm holding AK. part of me feels like i can't fold such a powerful equity hand, but the other realizes that i'll flop a pair 1/3 of the time, and when i do it's unlikely that more than a flop c-bet will go into the pot unless i'm behind.

standard example (we'll assume 5/10 NL with 1000 stacks for simplicity):

we raise to 35 with AKo, SB (21/15 good TAG) makes it 115, BB folds, and we're being offered 2-1 immediate odds

what's the standard play here? if you choose to call or 4-bet, what's the plan postflop?

how does the situation change if:

* we have AKs rather than AKo?
* the SB is laggier?
* we are 3-bet by the button?
* we are UTG rather than the CO?
* we opened from the SB?



i obviously know the broad answer to these, but i'm looking for more detailed answers on how to handle these situations.

thanks"

just a question...... Just been playing 5 nl.... I heard about variance being a pretty good factor but... i mean i am on a 10 buy in downswing over 9932 hands. I play a solid game and i am a six tabler. Is this bad or does it and can it happen to everyone?


It can happen. You probably have some leaks but also too it is very possible to run this bad. However, given the level of opponent, you can often win just by other means

How "stabby" are NL opponents in general especially at lower limits.

Basically should I treat an unknown as non-stabby (not calling one bet when you've shown weakness but you can't call two bet/only beat a bluff) showing down with ace high etc in small pots. Or what?

I'm afraid that your honered mods have been out of the loop for way too long to answer game dependent question. I personally have no idea what so ever how the games play compared to 2006

I have been adjusting my game last time a little bit, with intergrating more 2nd barreling in it. However I found that 2nd barreling with air on 10NL almost never works since people don't have fold equity. Can anyone of you give me a reasonable advice on what factors 2ndbarreling relies?

Thank you so much already,

X0zix


Bluffing peelers is possible, but since they peel so light as they do, you are almost forced to three barrel - not just two barrel. But if they are peelers the question is if you should bother, which can't be answered without being at the table

1)Is it a mistake to fold in sb with a8 to UTG's minraise?
2)How deep we should be that it would be ok to call blind 3bet in button with suited connectors? a)blind 3bets very strong hands b)blind 3bets lightly and was seen 3betting A10o from blinds


1. Generelly speaking, no!
2. In order tocall a 3bet with SCs, you need room to bluff the board that villians range miss. So you need enough money to bluffraise his cbet or similar and you need a range that isn't too tight from villian, so you actually can bluff some boards

If i will be playing 1 table for 20k hands. Will the variance be the same like if i 4 table for 20k hands?

I.e. if i am playing 4 tables for 1k hands on a day, while i am having a downswing. The next day i have a upswing starting at hand 1001.

Let's assume the same situation, only i play 1 table so i play 250 hands a day, will my upswing start 1001?(so i have to play another 3 days for my upswing starts).

(with downswing i mean runnning cold & coolers all over the place.

Hopefully one of the mods understand my Q with my bad english, i think it is a very noobish.

When you speak of the size of your variance, I assume that you mean the size of your swings.

The size of your swing is dependent on your standard variation and your winrate. So if your game does not change playing four table, your swings over 20k hands will be the same.
If you winrate drops then your swings get larger (or if your style of play changes in a way that increases your standard deviation)

But as a rule of thumb, larger winrates mean smaller swings

Hey guys great idea this, I have a question I hope its not too general just something i was thinking about.

50nl, your in the BB with 22-99, a TAG 18/15/4 25 ATS raises OTB whats your default play here?

Calling seems like the best choice but even if we do get lucky and hit our set the TAG is probably not gonna pay us off anyways.

So do we fold what could be the best hand as were OOP and cant stand much heat on later streets?

3 betting OOP,turning our hand into a bluff is the worst option here yes?

ty

It depends on villians post flop tendencies and what you wish to accomplish and what your generel 3betting range is

But word on the streets is that small/medium PPs make lousy 3betting material

Is it even possible to have that type of graph (one where total $$$ earned >>> $$$ won at showdown) at uNL? I mean how can all your profit come from non-showdown pots at micro-stakes where people don't really fold? Surely most of your profit at uNL does and should come from showdown pots, no?

Sure it is possible and it has been done, BUT

.. it takes skill, and since you're doing all the betting, it is you that has to not make mistakes. Most don't have the skill to pull it off and since you can turn a nice profit playing a showdown bound style for value, it is usually the recommended path. Learn to crawl before you learn to walk ... very few people have the positive profits overall and are SD losers.

So I agree with you