25nl Zone on Ignition - No Reads

3 folds
BTN: raises to $0.50 ($20.28)
SB[me]: 3bets to $2.00 with 75 (covers BTN)
BB folds
BTN: calls $1.50

FLOP: 653 pot $4.25
SB[me]: bets $2.37
BTN: raises to $4.74
SB[me]: calls $2.37

TURN: 6532 pot $13.73

SB[me]: bets $13.73
BTN: has $13.54 remaining


I get a weak open from the BTN and chose to 3bet defend with a suited one gapper. This isn't about balancing my 3bet range because tables are anonymous. I'm simply defending my blind against what's generally a steal attempt from weak hand with a hand that's fairly easy to play post flop if called. I expect to get a lot of folds pre.

Anyways I get min raised on the flop and elect to call with my middle pair, gutshot and backdoor flush draw. My hand is fairly well disguised not that I expect the BTN to be considering my range too much given his stack size. I expect most hands with a four in them to call the flop vs raise.

On the turn we pick up the backdoor flush draw. I elect to semi-bluff shove for a PSB which equals the BTN's remaining stack. I have decent equity and I don't really want to check/call with my hand. We block some of the BTN's pair/2 pair combos and draws so it should put a lot of pressure on single pair hands or medium overpairs. Good/bad/borderline?

Why 3bet so large?

Pot is $2.75, BTN has to call $1.50. We're raising with the goal of getting a fold. My standard 3bet OOP is pot plus 1bb.

I'd 3B smaller by default, but if villains range is weaker so is less likely to defend it makes sense to bet smaller also. Don't think people are changing their 3B defending range depending on size too much.

I'd check flop, don't think betting is awful though. OTT none of our value hands really want to take this line, since we want to allow villain to continue bluffing with a fairly polarised range. By donking, we fold out all bluffs villain has and only getting called by their value since villain shouldn't expect us to have 4x in our range too often so imo it's bad. Don't see the issue with x/c, we have SDV and good equity vs villains range.

edit: saying that, we only really need 13% fold equity here so I guess it's fine

I don't mind the cb. You've created the dead money that you now want to take down. You have some decent suck out equity if called. When villain raises the flop I would just check turn and decide.

If I had a stronger hand I may 3bet 1bb smaller. You're probably right that they call the same frequency. But the benefit is it creates more dead money when they fold to a flop cbet which I will fire nearly all of the time in this spot.

Not taking this line with our value hands is the main consideration I had when reviewing the hand. It's a reasonable case against the shove. However we are most likely behind on the turn but shoving may get him to fold hands like 6x 99-77. It puts him in a tough spot with marginal hands that we're behind to.


The problem I have with checking the turn is if he shoves, which he should given his SPR, I probably don't have the price to call. I assume I'm behind on the turn but villain has enough hands that will have a hard time calling a shove. Even when he does with sets or a straight I have a decent number of outs.

IDK though, maybe it's too polarized towards bluffs.

This whole thinking seems to be backwards to me. The higher you make your bluff sizing the larger the % of the time villain has to fold to it to make it a +EV play.

You want to make your bluffs as small as they need to be (but not smaller)

That's...true.

This may be a leak at higher limits and something I have to adjust pre in games where post flop is tougher to play. For the time being as long as people keep over folding to cbets it's free money.

I think you played it fine. This spot probably isn't massively +EV but I agree that checking here kinda sucks, since you get jammed on every time. The post above saying you only need 13% fold equity is key. I don't think you're getting folds here often but you're definitely getting over 13%.

What does a thinking player do when faced with my shove holding a hand like 88/A6 or even two pair? Obviously they're calling with straights and sets. They're probably not putting me on a straight, a set might be a bit thin. I don't know how many people are 3betting 66/55/33 out of the blinds vs a BTN open.

Does this board really favor either of our ranges? I suppose sets fit the BTN more than mine. If I can have a flopped set I can also have 44, but don't see myself leading pot on the turn.

I think 3bet sizing is fine. OTT, he either calls and has us beat, or folds whatever he was bluffing OTF. I don't think we have any fold equity vs better hands than ours.

I'd call with 65, probably ditch 77/88 and A6. Mainly because you're right, this doesn't hit either range well, so I'd expect you to have something if you're shoving like that. Either some sort of crazy combo draw that I'm not all that ahead of or an overpair that's got me crushed (or 44 - maybe you wouldn't just shove with it but I know a lot of players do). So unless I beat some overpairs I'm out.

Yeah, that is true, but I don't expect that our opponent that minraised flop folds anything better than our hand, and checking let's him fire with his bluffs sometimes.

Seems like shoving is pretty thin and I don't like check/calling it off. Hand seems too good to let go though.

As for the results I shoved and the BTN called with top set...then I binked a 4 for the straight. That's why I posted the hand. I expect to get called by sets/straights but didn't really know if I should expect folds from his bluff catching range.

what bluffs does he have? A3, maybe?

Check flop seems ok here.

Kind of a big CB, Id make it 1/3.

Obv V depented but I check my whole range in 3b pots OOP on these kinda flops.

I know you said this wasn't about balancing 3b ranges, etc but I much prefer a flat pre here (though 3b size is perfect imo). Not sure about cbet AP. Vs a non-full stack I think he'll float nearly a bunch of overcards, so I'm okay with it but I think I fold to the minr. Not sure if all of that is bad though.

I rarely flat in the SB so in this spot it was 3bet or fold. Times I do flat in the SB is if I want the BB to come along or if I have a small pair and don't anticipate a raise from the BB.

I think calling the turn min-raise is pretty standard given our hand. We're calling $2.37 into a pot of $11.36. That's 20.8% and we have 8 live outs to the flush plus 3 for the remaining 4's for a straight. 11 outs with two streets is over what we need to call correctly. That's obviously for the worse case scenario against sets. If he has a 4 then we need a diamond to win and 4 for a chop. But if we're constructing his range I think we can include some overpairs and 6x hands which gives us more outs to two pair and trips. So it's should be +ev. This also leaves out the implied odds for when we hit and there will bet times when we improve but so does our opponent.

It's a good one to throw into PokerStove and play with the numbers.

EDIT: I put this into PS with a range of 99-55,33,A6s,A6o and against that range on the flop we have 32% equity. In reality against what he had it was only 18.28%.

D'oh, disregard that thought you were BB. Sorry!

Also, the minr is OTF not OTT, so you don't have the flush outs then. The problem I find with the range you've assigned him here as well is that so many of those will not be minr the flop with a great frequency, though it might be different on ignition?

2X BTN open shouldn't be considered weak. The 3B size is standard. As played I think the flop B/C is a weak play bordering on bad. As weak as you hand looks I think it's ahead a lot of the time. I'd bet/shove this OTF.

OOPS! That's what happens when I try to think in the AM after a 12 hour night shift. Thanks for correcting.

We've got 31% vs a range of KK+ and 66/55/33 on the flop..

Shoving flop can never be terrible considering our equity.
Did a very quick calculation and I believe villain needs to fold about 20% on the flop for a shove to be EV+.

IP I would be more inclined to just call.

If you don't wanna gii on the flop, check.

Shoving flop didn't even cross my mind. I really only shoved the turn since I picked up the FD and didn't want to check call. Thought I would get folds some % of the time even though it's hard to put me on much other than a bluff.

Amusing that in every other thread people tell the op to 3bet to 4x oop. Here someone does it and people say it's too much. Not saying it's the same people, it's just amusing.

Fold pre