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| Student Life Discussion on student issues and life, both in and out of the classroom. |
07-22-2012, 05:40 PM
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#1
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adept
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 818
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Taking on another college town slumlord..did I blow it?
So I'm another lucky guy getting to deal with a scummy landlord trying to withhold the majority of my security deposit. I tried to resolve it with her but she basically completely ignored any attempts at resolution, so I filed in small claims court and have the hearing on Wednesday. I probably should've gotten advice before now, but the amount wasn't large enough to justify getting a lawyer, so I'll be representing myself while she lawyered up.
Trying to make a long story as short as possible (CLIFFS AT BOTTOM):
-Find out landlord has some history..at least 2 tenants in past few years had to pursue things legally. So we arrange walkthrough in advance of move-out to have her tell us what needs done so we can protect our security deposits.
-Lease ends May 15. Walk-through arranged for May 8. I move almost all my stuff back home (an hour away) on night of May 7. Roommate remains there and does walkthrough with landlord the following day as planned. I hadn't been able to get all cleaning/repairs done before leaving, and told him I would come back later that week to take care of things. I talk to my roommate the night she does the walkthrough, he says despite 6+ hours cleaning she was really pissed about the shape of the place.
-I call her the following day (May 9) to get details on what specifically I need to do so that I can address all issues. She doesn't answer, so I leave a voicemail saying, "Hey [landlady], [roommate] told me there were some issues and I was just calling to get the details so I can address all that, please give me a call back so we can get this all handled for you."
-After not receiving a call back, I call again the following night (May 10). She answers, I ask if it's a good time to talk, she says "Not really, I'm in the middle of my favorite TV show" so I ask if she'd like to call me back afterwards. She says "Yes I'll do that" -- and of course doesn't. So I email her later that night. In the email, I explain I had to get home the night before the walkthrough but that I still intended to rectify all outstanding issues, so I ask her to identify them so I can handle them.
-She emails back the following morning (May 11) telling me she was "very disappointed" in the state of the apartment and is handling everything there that day to get ready for the new tenants moving in May 14. She had mentioned to my roommate that she wanted to move in the summer tenants early and asked if we'd be gone, and I told him that probably wouldn't be a problem, but she never talked to me directly about it, and we never had made any explicit agreement and no consideration was provided for us being out early. My roommate had also not turned in the keys at this point, so I would think we wouldn't have technically/legally moved out at that point.
-I get $150 of my $400 deposit back on May 30. She handwrote out a note accompanying the check to itemize deductions for:
$125 labor & paint for a room
$25 repairing a fan
$25 returning a dresser to room
$75 half of fee to clean entire apartment
I had spackled small holes in the wall from nails used to hang posters and used the wrong color in painting over it (only can she had provided and I was in a hurry, too late to fix it that day by time I realized it was off) -- the charge itself isn't egregious, but I fully intended to fix this myself and would have before the end of our lease.
The fan stopped working towards the end of the lease on it's own -- I didn't break it or anything. She also charged my roommate $25 to repair his fan and it sounds like the only issue with his was replacing a lightbulb.
As far as returning the dresser -- our apartment came furnished, and when I moved in she told us she could take out anything we didn't want/need (I'd already had her remove some stuff prior to arrival since I was bringing my own bed, etc), and I told her I didn't need 2 dressers. However, since she would've had to take the dresser down a flight of stairs and put it in storage, we told her we could just leave it in the hallway outside my room if she wanted, which she obviously agreed to. Then she charges me $25 at the conclusion of the lease to move it 10 feet back when we had placed it there in agreement with (and as a courtesy to) her.
The cleaning fee also seems pretty steep and she provided no further detail.
So my issues are two-fold:
1. I believe some of the charges are unreasonable/don't qualify as damages under Ohio's landlord-tenant law.
2. She entered the apartment and made repairs/cleaned 4 days prior to the end of our lease when I had clearly communicated that I still was going to fix things before the conclusion of our lease. We hadn't turned in the keys to her at that point.
So after emailing her back and forth a few times trying to reason with her and getting nothing constructive back, I filed suit in small claims court. She got a lawyer, who filed an answer to my complaint. My local small claims court only provides a one page "information sheet" for filing, and other than the names/addresses, it just asks to "please give a brief explanation of your complaint" with 10 lines for description. In it, I basically just stated that I entered into a lease with defendant, ending 5/15/12, which included a security deposit of $400. Defendant returned $150 and wrongly withheld the remainder, citing damages that don't qualify as damages under Ohio Landlord-Tenant Law and charging for damages that plaintiff intended to remedy but was unable to do so because defendant unilaterally did so in advance of the conclusion of our lease."
Her lawyer filed an answer saying they admit the lease had a stated termination date of 5/15/12 and the information re: security deposit amount/amount returned is accurate, but that they deny all other allegations in the complaint. Their second defense was "Plaintiff's complaint fails to state a claim upon which relief can be granted." Lastly, they said that the complaint doesn't describe the events or claims with sufficient particularity to enable defendant to determine additional defenses, etc. Accordingly, they ask for complaint to be dismissed and awarded reasonable costs.
In addition to the answer they asked for it to be rescheduled for 2 weeks later so that a witness can make it -- the court did reschedule. One of my main questions is if I actually need to respond to the answer or if I can just go in and make my case on Wednesday at the hearing. I've attempted to Google and find more information but I'm somewhat unclear based on everything I've read -- I'll call the court tomorrow but I'm worried/wondering if they'll dismiss it if I haven't filed an answer or if that will affect my case in any way.
Any answers/advice from people who have gone through this process/know what the legal stuff means would be helpful. The whole "Plaintiff's complaint fails to state a claim upon which relief can be granted" defense has me somewhat confused -- I understand basically what it means based on researching all this, but I know I have the right jurisdiction and while I didn't cite the exact section of my state's revised code in the complaint, I did detail the issues and point out the 2 grounds under which I think the law would support my landlord having wrongly withheld my deposit. Any guidance someone might be able to provide in that area would be awesome. Anyway, obviously tl;dr but any help is much appreciated and I'll answer and questions that might help/provide a TR on Wednesday one way or the other, even if I get absolutely schooled in the law.
CLIFFS:
-Hear about shady history of landlady, attempt to take proactive steps to get security deposit back
-Landlady ignores attempts to arrange to fix issues, does it herself before lease ends
-Landlady withholds over half of security deposit, some for legitimate damages (still, ones that would've been fixed before end of lease if she hadn't done so) and some for things that imo clearly aren't damages under my state's landlord-tenant law
-I file suit in small claims court, she lawyers up, hearing on Wednesday, I maybe dropped the ball procedurally and screwed myself in the process? HELP PLZ
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07-22-2012, 07:16 PM
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#2
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,471
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Re: Taking on another college town slumlord..did I blow it?
Nothing sounds out of line here. I mean, I don't really know if it is standard to charge for those kinds of things, but repainting and repairing things that are actually broken and damaged seems fine. Small claims court if you want, but seems like a hassle for $250. And if she actually violated the landlord-tenant law, then you will win, but I'd make sure before actually pursuing this.
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07-22-2012, 09:10 PM
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#3
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: central nj
Posts: 7,686
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Re: Taking on another college town slumlord..did I blow it?
I'm not reading anything bad here. I'm confused.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomfooleryU
-After not receiving a call back, I call again the following night (May 10). She answers, I ask if it's a good time to talk, she says "Not really, I'm in the middle of my favorite TV show" so I ask if she'd like to call me back afterwards.
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This is stupid. You probably shouldn't have asked if it was a good time to talk (maybe instead just "hi, this is me, I wanted to talk to you about blah blah blah" and then let her tell you if she couldn't discuss it then). And even at that point, when she says she can't talk because of a tv show, you talk anyway because that's a stupid reason to avoid that conversation.
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07-22-2012, 09:27 PM
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#4
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Chapel Hill, NC (UNC BABY)
Posts: 28,351
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Re: Taking on another college town slumlord..did I blow it?
250 worth that much to you? otherwise seems like a huge, huge waste of time.
your side doesn't look that strong.
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07-22-2012, 10:23 PM
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#5
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adept
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NSFBBV4L
Posts: 1,199
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Re: Taking on another college town slumlord..did I blow it?
I would fight this all the way. These parasite landlords prey on the weak. Keep in mind that you are helping others in the future that will have to deal with this unreasonable landlord. Lol at posters here that think its a waste of your time. How much time and money do you think it costs their lawyers having to defend against your claim? LOTS! A lot more than the measly $250 you are claiming. Let them pay their lawyers $500 per hour to fight your $250 claim. I can guarantee you that for this reason they will come to an agreement with you prior to this ever reaching a court date. Be sure they have your phone no. and forwarding address though.
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07-22-2012, 10:28 PM
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#6
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,471
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Re: Taking on another college town slumlord..did I blow it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sufferinsuccotash
I would fight this all the way. These parasite landlords prey on the weak. Keep in mind that you are helping others in the future that will have to deal with this unreasonable landlord. Lol at posters here that think its a waste of your time. How much time and money do you think it costs their lawyers having to defend against your claim? LOTS! A lot more than the measly $250 you are claiming. Let them pay their lawyers $500 per hour to fight your $250 claim. I can guarantee you that for this reason they will come to an agreement with you prior to this ever reaching a court date. Be sure they have your phone no. and forwarding address though.
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Go back to being
Last edited by GusJohnsonGOAT; 07-22-2012 at 10:28 PM.
Reason: But really not seeing anything out of line here. I'd love to know what you think is incorrect about her charging you for this
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07-22-2012, 10:39 PM
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#7
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adept
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NSFBBV4L
Posts: 1,199
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Re: Taking on another college town slumlord..did I blow it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GusJohnsonGOAT
But really not seeing anything out of line here. I'd love to know what you think is incorrect about her charging you for this
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But really, did you even read this...
Quote:
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Landlady ignores attempts to arrange to fix issues, does it herself before lease ends
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Oh and quit trolling
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07-22-2012, 10:56 PM
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#8
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,471
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Re: Taking on another college town slumlord..did I blow it?
Yeah, so he'd save like $100 doing it himself? Not really seeing the point of this. A little scummy for her to do that, but I don't really see much issue here.
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07-23-2012, 09:06 AM
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#9
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adept
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 818
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Re: Taking on another college town slumlord..did I blow it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GusJohnsonGOAT
Yeah, so he'd save like $100 doing it himself? Not really seeing the point of this. A little scummy for her to do that, but I don't really see much issue here.
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Prob $150 -- in my state you can sue for double the incorrectly withheld damages so there's a little more than $250 on the line. If she'd just charged for the wall (which legitimately needed to be painted, although you probably could argue it falls under normal wear and tear since it wasn't in great shape when I moved in, as she'd torn down some flower wallpaper outlining the window and not painted over it) I would've agreed with you. In that situation it would've been annoying and cost me an extra $100 but also saved me a bit of time, so whatever - it's a wash.
But when she tries to take me to the cleaner and charge me for completely BS things, charges me for something that was done as a favor to her and charges my roommate $25 for a lightbulb, I'm not going to let her take advantage of me. Keep in mind she did this BEFORE my lease was over and despite my efforts to take care of anything to her satisfaction. At the end of the day, the security deposit is my money and I'm not going to encourage her to keep treating tenants' money as if it's her own when the damages/circumstances don't justify it.
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07-23-2012, 04:25 PM
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#10
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grinder
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 671
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Re: Taking on another college town slumlord..did I blow it?
If you have the time and inclination to fight I would encourage it. "Failure to state a claim" is pretty standard lawyerspeak - but by alleging her failure to timely return your security deposit you have stated a claim.
Don't be intimidated - small claims court is kind of fun. You're entitled to general wear and tear on the apartment, and I think that a judge would not be impressed by her attitude when a tenant is trying to take proactive steps to ensure his deposit is returned.
If you have pictures, bring them. And print them out, don't expect a judge to go through your cell phone. You could be entitled to double damages + costs; and worst case you're out your filing fees and maybe she reconsiders her MO in the future.
So basically your point is: there wasn't damage - it was wear and tear. And feel free to say that your understanding was that the landlord wanted to move someone in prior to the termination of your lease. Not to give your opinion about it - it's just obvious to me that it's unreasonable for a landlord to expect a tenant to leave an apartment in "move-in condition". I would expect that point to be clear to a judge as well.
Good luck....
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07-23-2012, 04:37 PM
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#11
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adept
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 947
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Re: Taking on another college town slumlord..did I blow it?
Can people please stop talking about the amount of money. I'm with op all the way if someone tries to **** you over like this. I wouldn't care a single bit about 250 dollars, I'd care about putting a pos human being to place.
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07-23-2012, 04:39 PM
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#12
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adept
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 947
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Re: Taking on another college town slumlord..did I blow it?
Btw, do you know the previous tenants? I don't have any idea of how law works in usa but maybe it could help to get statements from them about how they were treated.
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07-23-2012, 06:25 PM
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#13
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,471
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Re: Taking on another college town slumlord..did I blow it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by klior
Can people please stop talking about the amount of money. I'm with op all the way if someone tries to **** you over like this. I wouldn't care a single bit about 250 dollars, I'd care about putting a pos human being to place.
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I still don't see how this person is really a POS. Compared to what half the landlords do, this seems like pretty standard ****. Maybe I'm wrong, but it just doesn't seem that egregious. Poor form? Sure, but nothing to fight over.
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07-24-2012, 04:00 PM
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#14
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: US
Posts: 3,610
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Re: Taking on another college town slumlord..did I blow it?
I don't know anything about the law, just wanted to say good luck and don't back down.
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07-24-2012, 05:53 PM
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#15
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,053
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Re: Taking on another college town slumlord..did I blow it?
I would check that if you lose you are not responsible for court fees... I have no way of knowing how strong your case is but to me it seems entirely possible you'd end up footing the bill for court fees well in excess of the damages.
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