Sports Containment Thread: Sponsored by G.I. Joe Pavelski, Real American Superhero (ELIte) - Page 113

mullen · 12-11-2011, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zzthe3rd

no I meant RB for comparing what denver is doing to the wildcat. passes like that were not even in the playbook for guys like ronnie brown or brad thomas.

Why is it limited to RBs? There are mobile QBs who could've easily made that play, we discussed them earlier ITT.

**dkgojackets** · 12-12-2011, 12:05 AM

the whole point is that anyone who says it will be easy to stop him because the wildcat only worked for a few weeks is dumb and comparing apples to elephants.

meanwhile gus has been wrong on basically everything he has said itt

**LKJ** · 12-12-2011, 12:10 AM

Well, except when he hated on Boise State. He was onto something there.

GusJohnsonGOAT · 12-12-2011, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkgojackets

meanwhile gus has been wrong on basically everything he has said itt

Really? Maybe on some assertions, but my overall points about Tebow being a poor QB and Denver not getting enough credit are true. The Bears would have exposed the Broncos if they had Cutler and Forte in this game. The Broncos won't be successful when they match up with an non-fragmented team (Bears, Chiefs, Dolphins, and Vikings all have problems on at least one side of the ball.)

I'm so confident the Patriots will beat them next week, that I'll change my avatar to Tim Tebow and I <3 Tebow as my location if they (Patriots) lose next week.*

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkgojackets

the whole point is that anyone who says it will be easy to stop him because the wildcat only worked for a few weeks is dumb and comparing apples to elephants.

meanwhile gus has been wrong on basically everything he has said itt

lol, you don't even watch the games. You just look at the result. Tebow was 3/15 with 1 pick during the game at one point. See, it's easy to pick a point in time and just look at that. Tebow was massively unsuccessful today, and the final success came from a conservative Bears defense that allowed for Tebow to make passes towards the middle of the field in order to bleed off the clock. Also massive credit needs to be given to Barber for allowing this to happen in the first place.

zzthe3rd · 12-12-2011, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GusJohnsonGOAT

Really? Maybe on some assertions, but my overall points about Tebow being a poor QB and Denver not getting enough credit are true. The Bears would have exposed the Broncos if they had Cutler and Forte in this game. The Broncos won't be successful when they match up with an non-fragmented team (Bears, Chiefs, Dolphins, and Vikings all have problems on at least one side of the ball.)

i don't think anyone has ever had to deal with as many qualifying factors as tebow. "if they didn't win, he would have lost!"

Quote:

I'm so confident the Patriots will beat them next week, that I'll change my avatar to Tim Tebow and I <3 Tebow as my location if they (Patriots) lose next week.*

oh wow picking a 6 pt favorite, don't get ahead of yourself buddy. quite the bold prediction

Quote:

lol, you don't even watch the games. You just look at the result. Tebow was 3/15 with 1 pick during the game at one point. See, it's easy to pick a point in time and just look at that. Tebow was massively unsuccessful today, and the final success came from a conservative Bears defense that allowed for Tebow to make passes towards the middle of the field in order to bleed off the clock. Also massive credit needs to be given to Barber for allowing this to happen in the first place.

this part is just so so so dumb.

mullen · 12-12-2011, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkgojackets

the whole point is that anyone who says it will be easy to stop him because the wildcat only worked for a few weeks is dumb and comparing apples to elephants.

meanwhile gus has been wrong on basically everything he has said itt

I never said it would be easy to stop. I said that eventually NFL teams will solve it and Tebow-style offenses will be inffective.

I used it as a comparison for an unusual NFL offense that stumped defenses initially when zz said there was no basis for any defense adapting to Tebow.

Tim Tebow will be a starting NFL QB in 2014 +300

zzthe3rd · 12-12-2011, 01:53 AM

Yeah but you can't use something that is an apples to oranges comparison as a basis in the first place lol. That's the point!

Also I was talking about tebow the individual, not the actual style of offense:

Quote:

Originally Posted by mullen
A few years ago when Miami also ran the Wildcat with ronnie brown/ricky williams it worked really well for awhile because no one was prepared. More teams started doing it it became of flavor of the month in the NFL. They ran it ALOT.

Then Bill Belichick showed everyone how to stop it, destroyed Miami, and no one runs the ****ing Wildcat anymore.

zzthe3rd ok PM me when teams are able to replicate having tebow under center. ill come back in here and apologize to each and everyone i disagreed with individually.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mullen
Other teams weren't nearly as successful at running it. If anything my argument just means that more teams will start running Tebow-style offenses and defenses will adapt even quicker.

zzthe3rd lol the point is that they wont be able to replicate it (and they know this, so they won't even try) because tebows got such a unique skillset.

this isn't about some crazy new offensive scheme that denver is running and taking the world by storm with; it's about the fact that he has historically gotten the job done despite the multitude of "cons" that people find with his playing style. so my position that he will continue to get the job done one way or another has a solid foundation, whereas the people who have "reasons" to believe otherwise are basing their reasons on things that just don't apply because there hasn't been a tebow before.

this is a "his whole is greater than the sum of his parts" type of situation.

mullen · 12-12-2011, 02:03 AM

Can we stop going in circles? There have been Tebow's just not ones with offenses designed around them. We already discussed Vick would be more successful than Tebow if currently inserted in Denver (assuming God isn't real).

It isn't apples and oranges. NFL defenses adapt. His skillset IS NOT UNIQUE. In fact some defenses have been effective at stopping Tebow, but due to injuries, horrible coaching and player mistakes, variance etc the Broncos continue to win. It will level off. It's not sustainable.

zzthe3rd · 12-12-2011, 02:06 AM

lol ok

**LKJ** · 12-12-2011, 02:09 AM

I mean, the last drive of regulation was the Bears seemingly going into full-on prevent when all Denver needed was a field goal in mile high altitude, which is really weird, but the drive before that they were playing a more normal defense (albeit likely with softer cushions by the corners) and Tebow did crank it up and lead a pretty impressive drive.

While I can't agree with all of the pro-Tebow talking points, I think those who declare him to be absolutely terrible are being overly extreme. Yes the Broncos defense deserves a lot of props, but these comebacks can't happen without Tebow leading an undertalented offense down the field for these scores. Granted I'd still way rather have Rodgers, Brady, Brees, or even Eli Manning leading my team down the field late, but Tebow is still doing a nice job and if I wasn't broke I think I'd take action on mullen's +300 line of Tebow starting games in 2014.

mullen · 12-12-2011, 02:16 AM

To be clear LKJ, I mean that Tebow will be a regular starting NFL QB, not that he will start a game in 2014 (random garbage time start or being a 2nd/3rd string QB and starting a game because of injury doesn't count).

I'm a bit conflicted because while I enjoy watching Tebow succeed and think he's good for the NFL (and obviously epic comeback nailbiters are fun to watch), many of Tebow's supporters are delusional about his future NFL prospects and ability in general, so I think I'll also enjoy watching him crash and burn.

**LKJ** · 12-12-2011, 02:19 AM

Yeah I mean at +300 I'd take him to either break camp as the starting QB or to otherwise start at least 8 games in the season.

But yes I wouldn't do this bet at even money.

GusJohnsonGOAT · 12-12-2011, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zzthe3rd

oh wow picking a 6 pt favorite, don't get ahead of yourself buddy. quite the bold prediction

So you don't have faith in Tebow? Got it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zzthe3rd

this part is just so so so dumb.

No, because everyone is being results oriented and ignoring the real factors as to why the Broncos are winning. Tebow has done nothing extraordinary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LKJ

Yes the Broncos defense deserves a lot of props, but these comebacks can't happen without Tebow leading an undertalented offense down the field for these scores.

I actually have no idea why more teams don't run a hurry up offense. The NFL is lolbad at stopping 2 minute drills.

**LKJ** · 12-12-2011, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GusJohnsonGOAT

So you don't have faith in Tebow? Got it.

Oh come on. Not having faith in him to outduel Brady is hardly an indictment of a second-year QB.

GusJohnsonGOAT · 12-12-2011, 02:43 AM

Patriots have the worst pass defense by yardage in the league. So when the Broncos are down, Tebow should inevitably be able to run an easy 2 minute drill to win. Minnesota, for reference, are ranked 26th.

Gotta say, their offensive coordinator is a genius. He is clearly exploiting teams with poor running defense with running and poor passing defense with passing.