I was pretty sufficiently "friend-zoned" (hell I got the LJBF speech after trying to kiss her!) with my current gf right before we left for winter break, then I just decided to keep hanging out with her and being fun and making myself more attractive to her, while not being fixated and still pursuing other girls at the same time, and voila, no more friend zone. My sample size is small though and I dunno if I'm really qualified to answer the question for sure so I won't, just providing evidence

Yea, might be pretty situational in your case, maybe something she said or did or how she acted. I do think though that your point does have some validity and that a "friend zone" does exist to some extent. Its just more a personal thing that you have to judge on a case by case basis.

The funny thing is that sometimes stuff happens and you just know that you could never ever hookup with a girl ever. For instance, I was once getting a know a girl, took quite a while to become good friends (all the while I thought we might be moving towards hooking up or something more) until one night we just had a long conversation about all sorts of meaningful things and we ended up sharing quite a bit with each other. I left that conversation knowing that I had pretty much sacrificed all shot of hooking up with her. In the end it was good to have a another close friend, but sometimes unsaid and unintentional things happen to effectively lock you out forever.

Having followed along with your situation, I would never have applied the friend zoned definition to what was happening with how you were interacting with you current gf. It seemed like a pretty normal get to know each other feeling out period (especially from her perspective).

This just shows that a big part of trying to understand and apply broad terms to individual situations doesn't really work and should always be taken with a grain of salt when used.

Wait so Karak's advice is that being "friend-zoned" isn't a real thing, because if we spent a year listening to some whiny emo girl bitch about her bf she might have sex with me?

I think my order of preference goes karak's experience < being friend-zoned <<<< suicide.

Bolded all the relevant sections for you since you missed them the first time.

I was being mostly facetious.

So remember the "gf guy" incident from like 3 weeks ago involving my cockblocking dickhead friend who put me in a headlock and B?

Well I kinda let it go and had honestly forgotten about it, then he brought it up with me. Asked me if I was going to be "Brody" like that again. I just blew the comment off and didn't say anything. He brought it up a second time and this time I said, "listen man let's not talk about that just forget about it."

He then brought it up a 3rd time 15 minutes later and I ****ing let him have it, but in tactful manner. I, in the most reasonable and calm way I could imagine anyone going about it, told him why he was being a douche (obv didn't use the word douche) now, why he was a douche back then and that I didn't want to do any of this but apparently he won't ****ing let it go, but now that I said that let's just move on.

He then says, "Oh I didn't even know it bothered you." Yeah ****ing right dude.

He then said to me, "You know why you could still breathe while you were in the headlock? Cause I was just ****ing with you so I went easy."

To which I replied, "Oh thanks man. That was really gracious of you. I do appreciate very much you not cutting off my air supply. In the future in that situation I'll know if I can still get oxygen to my brain that you are just ****ing around."

He then told me the reason he put me in a headlock is because when I asked him to "cut in" it "offended and embarrassed him" since he was having a "good time with a girl" and I wanted her all to myself. At which point I blurted out, "I TOLD YOU I WAS INTERESTED IN HER AND ON TOP OF THAT YOU HAVE A ****ING GIRLFRIEND."

He said, "So? Does that mean I can't have a good time with another girl?"

I honestly had no idea how to respond to that and just stared at him blankly for a second, then said, "for argument's sake, let's say I was being unreasonable in approaching you and saying, while laughing, 'I'm going to cut in now.' Do you think putting me in a headlock and dragging me off the dancefloor was an appropriate response?"

"Yes."

And then he kept saying, "well I'm sorry you perceived my behavior in an offensive way." And I kept trying to tell him to drop it, and he kept saying that.

And I said, "Listen, that's a ****ing bull**** apology. You aren't apologizing for your behavior. You are apologizing for my perception. Just let it go but stop throwing that bull**** at me and expecting me to sit here like you are doing me a favor."

"Well I am offering you an apology."

"Are you apologizing for what you did or for what I perceived you did?"

"Your perception."

And at that point I just said let's just shake hands and let it go and we'll forget it happened (yeah right **** him I was going to let it go until he started being a dick about it today.)

im a little drunk, but was i being a bitch or justified?

it's a bit over the top, but what he did was punishable behavior

why wasn't this in CAPS?

Because I was honestly being very tactful and reasonable the entire conversation and still am now by some miracle. I honestly probably wasn't even nearly as harsh as I come off in my post. It just absolutely ****ing baffles me. I really was going to let it go, but he kept harassing me about it THREE SEPARATE TIMES today (and he had referenced it twice in the last week), so I felt like I either had to approach the issue or he would never shut up about it (and avoiding him isn't an option).

honestly i think you went easy on him

the kid is an obvious idiot and douchebag to boot. he doesnt understand ****, and i personally would not be his friend or hang out with him, cuz such a severe lack of intelligence is simply mindboggling.

o gahd that pisses me off i hate how people are so ****ing stupid sometimes and they cant even see it

you have stupid friends

well im glad you guys feel that way

i was gunna go out tonight until i realized most of my friends are out of town and it would just be me, gf guy, D, DG and B... and i texted them and was like im gunna stay in and keep it low key tonight.

B calls me

B: "I have a proposition for you."
"what's that?"
"ummm... our dryer is broke... so I thought maybe I could come over and we could drink beer and hang out and i could dry some clothes."
me (without hesitation): "Yeah that's weird"
"oh"
"hahaha just kidding. sounds fine."

so B is coming over to dry clothes and drink beer

i dont see how this doesnt turn into a disaster

putting aside who i think is right or wrong in the scenario i just want to point out that him cheating on his gf is his own decision, and although i think all guys that cheat are a huge ******* (at the time, ppl change i know i did after i cheated), you can't cockblock him just because he has a gf.

i'm not sure if you know how his relationship is or not but maybe they have an open one where hooking up with other ppl is okay or heavy flirting with other ppl is okay. maybe last week his gf danced all over some guy so he was having his fun.

dam go go karak im pumped for you

ok and back to the main point. him putting you in a choke hold was to obviously embarrass you and make you look weak to the other people because you just embarrassed him. him acting like that is just him being insecure with his self.

HOLY ****

B calls, "hey I decided I really want to go out. you should come with me. I was talking to DG and we should all go out together."
Me: "I really don't feel like going out tonight. I just want to do something low key." [It's worth noting that other than the GF-guy interaction this afternoon, I also found out I got totally screwed over by one of my professors here when it came to the law school transfer process, but that's a story for another time. That's what really has me on life tilt.]
B: "Oh... come on you should come. Are you sure?"
Me: "Yeah, have fun."
B: "Oh well I don't know what I'm going to do now."
Me: "I'm going to take a shower, and I'm gunna chill here and watch a movie. IF you want to join me, come over. If not, whatever. Call me and let me know."
B: "Ok"

then she calls me a few minutes later

b: "I think I'm going to come over now. I'm going to get food and bring beer. you want anything?"
Me: "Nah I'm fine just bring beer."
B: "ok I'll call you when i get there"

5 minutes pass

B calls again

b: "I really want to go out tonight. Come with me, please!"
Me: "Sorry but I really just want to stay in and chill tonight, had a rough week."
[I then explain to her the whole transfer situation and she starts getting all emo on me... i don want you to transfer... dont leave... etc. etc.]
B: "well I'm going out with [a bunch of people Karak doesn't know that well and one person who annoys him but isn't that bad]. come with us."
Me: "Nah, that's ok. Enjoy your night"
B spewed some more random begging me to go out emo ****, but at this point there's no way I'm giving in, especially after she set up to come over, semi-flaked, then set up to come over again, then flaked again. **** those games.

plus i know if i go out with her, she'll just play ****ing **** tease games with me all night and ill get tilted as usual and eff that

i am more more content sitting home playing video games thank you

You're going to play one of those Madden games where the CPU doesn't let you do anything but fumble on offense and doesn't let you defend pass plays effectively at all.

You're definitely her GBF in her eyes.

iono man im gettin the read that shes digging him

but then again only karak really knows i guess

i disagree (at this point), but it doesnt really matter since i could care less.

im not attracted to her at all (except maybe physically i guess)

that's kind of the reason i didnt go otu with her. i realized the only motivation i could have (and had) for her would be physical gratification, and ive never played that game and i dont want to start now. i have no emotional or relationship interest in her at all.

shoulda went out imo

then again i've only denied going out on a weekend probably like 2 times in my life and both were because my sleep schedule was messed up and i wanted to sleep.

in other news A, who i thought i was one date away from making a relationship with, has been very standoff-ish all of a sudden. i'm like one week away from not having had sex for 2 months (longest i've went in 2yrs). some girl was texting me today and i half jokingly said i don't have any plans yet tonight so sleep over at your house, i call bed. now she's texting me saying she actually does want me to so if it falls into my lap tonight i'm gunna do it. if things don't change with A i'm going out and man slutting it up for a little while.

wtf.. just tell that guy "if you ever put me in a headlock again i'll kill you"

Good decision imo, I would have shut her completely awhile ago and been a) much happier without her bs in my head or b) happy that I hooked up with her

+1, I got the impression that Karak is too level headed and non-confrontational for this response

Obv Karak could have retaliated much more strongly, but he has nothing to gain by doing so except some fleeting satisfaction. Cut the guy off, but do it quietly. This guy has shown he's perfect willing to try and make you look bad, so don't give him any excuse.