as there seem to be quite a few 2p2ers who have interest in going to grad school for a Ph.D i figure we can have a thread to contain info about what undergrads should do to give themselves the best shot.

i'll start with a few questions i have. i am going into my sophomore year of electrical engineering with a math minor and am pretty sure i want to go to grad school. i am doing research this summer with a professor who is apparently pretty huge in communications engineering which is prob a good start but i am not sure what field i want to go into. is it better to do research with a big name when i don't know what field i want or should i try to seek different professors to get a broader sense. the professor i am working with is basically a mathematician who has done a lot of work in communications.

also i am curious about what kind of grades i will need to get into a good program and what else i need to do so. hopefully some people in grad school in the forum that can answer people's questions here

what does 'pretty huge' mean? How many Science/Nature papers?

Basically your main priority should be to get admitted to a top tier school, IMO.

There are big names that aren't good advicers, but as a rule of thumb you won't go far wrong being associated with top notch, well funded science at a good institution. As an undergrad or 1st year grad student you will be pretty clueless about what is interesting, productive and/or important anyway

hth

pretty huge means he is both NAE and NAS and has a hamming medal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_Golomb

i basically dumb-lucked my way into doing research with him. i wanted to do research and just looking through the faculty list at my school and his area seemed cool so i emailed him, barely had an idea who he was other than his faculty profile

i assume my priority is to get admitted into a top tier school, i just don't know how to do that i honestly have no idea what is required to have a real shot at a top 10 school in my department but i figure if i start now i give myself the best chance.

Same stuff as always gets you in... gpa, GRE/GMAT, recs, extracurriculars, experience, etc.

pretty sure that resonably good grades and a letter of recommendation from someone with those credentials will get you through just about any door. Just make sure you stick in 12h/d 6 days a week during your internship you could probably pull it off.

I'm not an expert on electrical engeneering, but given its a field where the universities have to compete with the industry for talent I assume its relatively easy to get admitted even to the very best schools.

It's much better to be deeply involved with one research project instead of dabbling around in different areas. You are being admitted based off your potential to contribute at an advanced academic level. In general, in order to contribute at such a high level, you're going to have to spend a lot of time learning the nuances of the field and your particular project. People who tend to go through multiple labs do not contribute as much because they spend the bulk of their time learning the material. From an admissions committee perspective, they know that undergraduates that just dabble don't have the experience to understand the depth of knowledge that is required for research.

The most important consideration, in my opinion, you should make is to determine whether your potential research position has room for growth. If you can get a project that you can work on independently (maybe in the near future), that would be much more impressive than simply working under a graduate student/post-doc. In the end, it's about demonstrating that you can do independent research. It's very important that you don't become the lab grunt.

In my opinion, the importance of the name of the PI depends on the school you go to. If you go to a lower profile school, the name of the PI matters much more. On the flip side, if you go to a high profile school, the name of the PI matters much less. Either way, I don't think this is that big of a consideration, but the name can help. I know people who worked for potential Nobel-worthy PIs that couldn't get into any top tier schools, and I know people who worked for assistant professors from lower profile departments that were admitted to elite schools.

This isn't a big deal. You are only a sophomore. Also, many incoming graduate students are not sure what they want to do either. Don't worry about it.

This only becomes a big issue if you are applying for prestigious fellowships.


This question depends on what you mean by a "good program". If you mean top 10, you should be aiming for 3.8+, but 3.7 is acceptable in some cases. If you are thinking about the elite programs (MIT, Berkeley, Stanford - maybe Caltech), you're going to need 3.9+ for EE to be marginally competitive.

Keep in mind, these schools routinely reject 4.0's - especially those applicants with no research backgrounds.

This is pretty much all you need to say about how "big" he is. His name is definitely big enough.

EECS is still extremely competitive. Berkeley's EECS program accepted 100/2500 applicants for the 2008 admissions cycle

http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/Gradadm/Competition.htm

"If Berkeley is your preferred choice for graduate study, and you believe that you have superior qualifications, then we encourage you to apply. However, you should be aware that admissions are very competitive. Most successful applicants last year had GPAs above 3.7 and GRE quantitative scores above 90%. Many successful Computer Science applicants took the GRE Computer Science Subject test and scored above 90%. For Fall 2008 we had approximately 2500 applicants for about 100 slots."

In my opinion, their GPA quote is misleading. Their applicants include people from many grade-deflating institutions such as Caltech/MIT/etc...

wow, thanks ayfu, that is pretty in depth. i feel like my biggest impediment right now will be GPA, i don't have all my grades for semester yet but i am estimating that so far my total GPA will be ~3.62, just counting math/physics/engineering classes it is 3.73 so far and i assume it will only get harder

I'm looking for advice in Psychology, if anyone can help. I want to go to grad school to study Cognitive Psychology, at the moment I'm interested in Working Memory and Context Change, though most of the Cognitive branch is of some interest to me. I am going to be a senior in the Fall.

My GPA is a 3.79 overall, with a 4.0 in major (I have an A-, but our school implemented A+'s a year or so ago and I've gotten 4 in major), however, my school, UNCG, isn't a top tier school in the least (though we do have a decent Psychology, and specifically cognitive, program here).

I did not do general honors (I was a slacker as a freshman, but have changed a great deal since then) and thought I would be able to do honors in Psychology in 2 semesters, but it turns out it requires 3 semesters so I will not be graduating with honors in Psychology either (though I will be doing an honors thesis, attempting to get something published in a journal, nonetheless).

I have been working in a Research Lab as an assistant for the last year with the same professor, and next semester I will be doing Directed Readings/Independent study with him and hopefully turning out an IRB proposal and getting something published within the next year (a big goal, I know). This summer I am working with another professor whom I will also be taking a lecture with next semester, but I will not be working in her lab in the Fall. However, I will be working in two separate Research Labs as an assistant next semester. In at least one, and perhaps both, of them it will be a sort of RA/Independent Study mix, as I will be reading and discussing papers with the professor (with a possibility of doing research with the professor in the future) in addition to being an assistant. The letter of recommendation from the first prof will be awesome. And I think I could get solid letters out of both of the profs whose labs I will be in next semester, as well as perhaps the one this summer (I don't know this professor at all, basically, but hopefully I will get to know her better this summer and early next semester).

I haven't taken the GRE yet, but know I need to do so soon. I just bought a study book the other day. This part really does scare me, as my SATs weren't great (1730 with 3 scores; 660 math, either 530 or 540 for the other old score, and either 530 or 540 with the new one), though I never did any sort of prep tests or study things for it, so hopefully my GRE will be higher.

I am a member of Psi Chi. I recently got the paper work, certificate of acceptance etc. from the national thing, and I go to the monthly(-ish) meetings (though they are erratic).

As far as extracurriculars, I was in the SGA for two semesters. I will also be the Vice Presidents of the College Democrats starting next semester (positions last a full year, however the President may step down in December, so it may be one semester VP and one semester President). I don't know if I should list this or not though, I would think that being a VP of an organization would look good, but I don't know if mentioning politics is a good idea.

This summer I'm planning on doing some volunteer work, maybe at some soup kitchen or something. In the past I haven't really done anything. Maybe voter registration, phone banking, and canvassing, but again, I don't know if politics should be included on a resume.


Sadly, I'm late to the game and am not even sure where I want to go. I know a few of the big Cognitive schools (Washington University, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, etc.), but I don't know how much a reach they'd be. I also don't know how far I want to move (I know, I know, I have to grow up sometime).

Any advice?

I received my Ph.D. in Experimental Psychology from UIUC, so i know what it takes to get into their program.

GPA and GRE

If you have those, they'll want you in the Cognitive program. The letters, research, etc, can possibly help if you're weak in GPA or GRE.

Allow me to explain how important the GPA and GRE are. When i applied there, i also was accepted to places like Carnegie Mellon, and in fact was so sure i didn't want to go to UIUC that i didn't send them anything except my transcripts and GRE scores. I basically blew off the application, letters, personal statement, etc. They accepted me anyway and the secretary filled out all the application paperwork for me. Once they flew me out and showed me the Beckman Institute, i was sold.

Disclaimer: other schools might be different.

Good luck with it.

Below is a post I made on an earlier thread.

As for your recommendation question, realize that your recommender is not as important as the quality of his recommendation. In other words, a recommendation from a no name who can say all kinds of great things about you and mean it is better than a recommendation from a big name that is mediocre. Also, realize that your individual dedication is the single most important aspect of getting accepted to a top program in any individual field. Grades, GRE, and recommendations are important, but many people have those things and get rejected. It takes a lot more than that to get accepted.

If you have good grades, good GRE scores, and go to a good school, you should be able to get in anywhere as long as you have some research experience (1-2 yrs).

If anything is borderline, do research with a prof who went to grad school where you want to go to grad school. Their letter of recommendation at that school will go a lot further than you can imagine.

well, that is cool to hear cause the professor i'm working with went to harvard, though i don't know if it matters as much at a school like that.

anyone have one in physics fwiw?

A PhD/career in academia is inherently a low return on investment (ROI) type of career. For the same skill set and talent, you’ll likely be making much less money than you’re worth, and it can be brutal. Since you are in EECS, you have many options outside of academia.

Like you said, school only gets harder from here on out. If you’re doing good research, research is going to be harder than any of your classes. It is likely that you need to consider making some life style changes in order to accommodate your future goals. This means – less partying, more books, more research, etc…

Your GPA is on the low side for sure, but it isn’t like you are out of the running at any school. You’ll likely be a long shot at a Stanford, MIT, or Berkeley, but I’d recommend that you still give it a shot. You know the drill – just spend more time studying to increase it.

I think these points are key. Like I said earlier, it’s about your potential project. If you have a good project that you shine in, your recommender will have a lot to say about you. These things go together.

Dalerobk – Although your comments seem very genuine and true, they are not entirely applicable to a field like EECS. Like you mentioned, PhDs are very field specific. As far as I can tell, EE PhDs should have no problem getting a job in industry. In fact, a significant percentage of engineering PhDs get industry jobs.

In the sciences and engineering, it often takes less than 7 years (theorists can push 8 years). I’d expect 4-6 years for EECS. You can confirm this by simply looking around on various faculty websites and department websites.

From what I understand about the social sciences in general, the field is highly geared toward careers in academia. Following this logic, it would be highly recommended to attend a top tier graduate program in order to have a shot at becoming a professor. However, in a field such as engineering, they have many options in industry, so a top tier school isn’t necessary because they have backup plans.

Depends on if you want to go to Harvard. As you may or may not know, Harvard EE/CS isn’t exactly a top 10 program. For Harvard’s standards, it’s not very good at all. If there’s any stigma about Harvard academics, it’s that its engineering departments are rather poor for the caliber of its name brand. Personally, I wouldn’t want to be associated with that kind of reputation. Now, if you are looking into Applied Physics at Harvard, that’s another story.

Like I said, every field is very different. My post was written specifically for the humanities. Engineers obviously do get jobs outside of academia, which means that more academic jobs are open to lower caliber PhDs. The only people I have ever heard of who did any PhD in any field in under 5 years also came in with a masters, so it was in effect 5 years or more. I went to the University of Michigan and I can't think of one program that didn't require 5 years just by the structure of the program (2 years course work, 1 year of general exams, 2 years research and writing). If you have a masters, some departments would let you out of a year of course work, but again, that was because you had two years of grad work already.

The one point I would really hit home, however, is that doing a PhD means being a research scholar. Even if you never do a minute of research after you get your degree, you will be a research scholar for the time you are doing your PhD. It takes an all encompassing personal committement and passion to do that. Most people starting grad school don't really understand, and that's the reason only 33% actually finish. So I would say that part of the advice holds true for all fields. You should ask yourself if this is your life's passion before entering a PhD program. If it's not a driving passion, then you shouldn't do it, and in fact, you probably will only be wasting your time since you will likely not finish anyway.

One more point, if you do want to do a PhD, make sure to notify your faculty mentor of all the places you apply. Consult with him at every step. In an ideal world, he should contact the specific scholar with whom you would like to work. You (student) should do the same. Students worry about GPA, GRE, and all of that, but it does not matter. It does, but only so long as you don't stand out for those things being low. They do not get you accepted.

At good schools, you have to have the support of an individual faculty member to be accepted. It doesn't matter how great you are if no one wants to work with you individually, they will not accept you. The way admissions generally work at top schools is this. They distribute the admissions dossiers to the faculty members who would be appropriate for that student (so be sure to mention 2 or 3 people by name in your letter). Those faculty review the dossier. Then they have a faculty meeting in which they discuss who should be admitted. At that time Faculty Member X speaks up and says I want furyshade admitted. The best way to make sure Faculty member X says that and not Student Applicant Y or Z is to make contact with him before you ever apply. I knew of many cases at the University of Michigan where faculty members were in contact with prospective students months before the application deadline. Those faculty member all but assured the student of admission.

well i have a decent amount of confidence that my GPA still will go up as all of my grades that aren't A-/A's right now are in GE classes except for a B+ in honors physics (mechanics). again, thanks for all the help!

My buddy is a EE PHD at Berkeley. He graduated at 3 years from Cornell with like a 3.8/3.9 and did research. Not sure what his GRE score was but he got into Stanford, Princeton as well but chose Berekeley.

I have a friend at ChemE at Minnesota. Not sure what his undergrad grads were but he was a Cuban guy at MIT and pretty damn intelligent.

A bunch of guys from my major (ChemE) from Cornell got into Cal Tech (+4.0+ GPA), MIT like 3.8 and all of them did research.

One of my friends was recently admitted to Berkeley, Harvard, and MIT's Ph.D program as an EE major. He is from Iran and came to the US to obviously come to school. From what he tells me, pretty much his whole life has been mapped out for him to get his Ph.D from an elite school. Here is what I know about him:

He went to Montgomery College for 2 yrs (local community college) to take lower level classes. He had a 4.0 there.

He transferred to the University of Maryland for his final 2 years where he also had a 4.0. He had an internship at the National Institute of Standards & Technology and also did research for the 2 years while studying at UMD. He scored 800math/450 verbal on GREs. I believe his name is on a few published articles from his research.

He basically told me the secret to getting into grad school is to have a 4.0/do research for a couple years/800math/have a good rec.

With regards to GPA, a lot of it is just about knowing what professors and what classes to take. I'm graduating next week with a 3.3gpa EE degree, but I'm sure I could have had closer to a 3.5 if I wasn't an idiot and took number theory, or professors that gave 10% As.

My friend that I spoke about does A LOT of homework on the classes/professors he takes. For his upper level electives I know he only took labs (almost guaranteed A's) and did also 6-7 credits of independent study (more guaranteed As). I've never heard anyone talk more about grade distributions than him. I know that my friend refused to take Technical Writing during the regular school year because they assign a random faculty member to each class and you can't choose who you take it with. He took it in the summer when you had the option to choose your professor. Thinking about this now, I can think of 2-3 classes off the top of my head that i got C's in that would have been easy As if I did some independent research or did more HW picking classes.

that is one thing i learned after first semester where i had an awful GE professor, the doing HW on classes. unfortunately since i am doing a math minor i am also taking number theory next semester (from a questionable professor) but i have done what i can to get the best professors i can. i am hoping my GPA right now isn't gonna kill my chances down the road, i did pretty well on SATs so hopefully that will be a good indicator for GRE scores. everything said seems show that i need to really make sure my GPA is up to par. my school has a decent name for engineering grad, not sure how the undergrad is viewed but i feel like whatever happens the main thing that will hurt me if anything is GPA. glad you guys got me at least with the right stuff in mind going into the next three years, will have to remind myself to read this at the beginning of next semester

just something i forgot to mention. The GRE math is easier than SAT, mainly because you have a lot of students who take no math during college, but still take the GREs. This just means you need to get close to a perfect score. If you did well on SATs, you're an EE/math minor, you should be fine as long as you do a little bit of review.

This point is a very good one. I think the 33-50% number is a little misleading, though. A PhD has very high base standards. Most of the best candidates attend the best graduate schools. Therefore, the best graduate programs can boast 70-80+% graduation rate. For example, I know of a program that claims that they graduate 85% of their incoming class, and the majority (10%) of those that don’t finish leave on their own volition (go to med school/ law school/ etc…). If the statistics I’ve seen are indeed true, that means the graduation rate at lower profile schools are much lower than 33/50%. In the end, it balances out to ~33-50% graduation rate.

Exactly. Well stated.

As far as I can tell, Cornell’s program and competition is generally more difficult/stiff than USC’s (purely based off reputation). Graduate schools will probably know this, and they will most likely calibrate GPA’s from there. What I’m saying is that a GPA of 3.8 at Cornell probably equals 3.93+ at most other schools.

Again, like dalerobk said, the GPA doesn’t get you admitted.
I’m not sure how I feel about this. On one hand, your friend is doing a lot of research and work to plan his life, which is a very applicable/admirable skill. On the other hand, this is borderline ridiculous. You’re supposed to prepare for a PhD program by challenging yourself intellectually. If you’re deliberately avoiding hard work, that kind of defeats the purpose of doing a PhD. I guess the real test is to see whether your friend can pass the qualifiers.