Official Ph.D question/advice thread

[furyshade]

as there seem to be quite a few 2p2ers who have interest in going to grad school for a Ph.D i figure we can have a thread to contain info about what undergrads should do to give themselves the best shot.

i'll start with a few questions i have. i am going into my sophomore year of electrical engineering with a math minor and am pretty sure i want to go to grad school. i am doing research this summer with a professor who is apparently pretty huge in communications engineering which is prob a good start but i am not sure what field i want to go into. is it better to do research with a big name when i don't know what field i want or should i try to seek different professors to get a broader sense. the professor i am working with is basically a mathematician who has done a lot of work in communications.

also i am curious about what kind of grades i will need to get into a good program and what else i need to do so. hopefully some people in grad school in the forum that can answer people's questions here

[Xylocain]

what does 'pretty huge' mean? How many Science/Nature papers?

Basically your main priority should be to get admitted to a top tier school, IMO.

is it better to do research with a big name when i don't know what field i want or should i try to seek different professors to get a broader sense.

There are big names that aren't good advicers, but as a rule of thumb you won't go far wrong being associated with top notch, well funded science at a good institution. As an undergrad or 1st year grad student you will be pretty clueless about what is interesting, productive and/or important anyway

hth

[furyshade]

Originally Posted by Xylocain

what does 'pretty huge' mean?

Basically your main priority should be to get admitted to a top tier school, IMO.



There are big names that aren't good advicers, but as a rule of thumb you won't go far wrong being associated with top notch science. As an undergrad or 1st year grad student you will be pretty clueless about what is interesting or important anyway hth

pretty huge means he is both NAE and NAS and has a hamming medal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_Golomb

i basically dumb-lucked my way into doing research with him. i wanted to do research and just looking through the faculty list at my school and his area seemed cool so i emailed him, barely had an idea who he was other than his faculty profile

i assume my priority is to get admitted into a top tier school, i just don't know how to do that i honestly have no idea what is required to have a real shot at a top 10 school in my department but i figure if i start now i give myself the best chance.

[il_martilo]

Same stuff as always gets you in... gpa, GRE/GMAT, recs, extracurriculars, experience, etc.

[Xylocain]

Originally Posted by furyshade

i assume my priority is to get admitted into a top tier school, i just don't know how to do that i honestly have no idea what is required to have a real shot at a top 10 school in my department but i figure if i start now i give myself the best chance.

pretty sure that resonably good grades and a letter of recommendation from someone with those credentials will get you through just about any door. Just make sure you stick in 12h/d 6 days a week during your internship you could probably pull it off.

I'm not an expert on electrical engeneering, but given its a field where the universities have to compete with the industry for talent I assume its relatively easy to get admitted even to the very best schools.

[ayfu]

Originally Posted by furyshade

is it better to do research with a big name when i don't know what field i want or should i try to seek different professors to get a broader sense.

It's much better to be deeply involved with one research project instead of dabbling around in different areas. You are being admitted based off your potential to contribute at an advanced academic level. In general, in order to contribute at such a high level, you're going to have to spend a lot of time learning the nuances of the field and your particular project. People who tend to go through multiple labs do not contribute as much because they spend the bulk of their time learning the material. From an admissions committee perspective, they know that undergraduates that just dabble don't have the experience to understand the depth of knowledge that is required for research.

The most important consideration, in my opinion, you should make is to determine whether your potential research position has room for growth. If you can get a project that you can work on independently (maybe in the near future), that would be much more impressive than simply working under a graduate student/post-doc. In the end, it's about demonstrating that you can do independent research. It's very important that you don't become the lab grunt.

In my opinion, the importance of the name of the PI depends on the school you go to. If you go to a lower profile school, the name of the PI matters much more. On the flip side, if you go to a high profile school, the name of the PI matters much less. Either way, I don't think this is that big of a consideration, but the name can help. I know people who worked for potential Nobel-worthy PIs that couldn't get into any top tier schools, and I know people who worked for assistant professors from lower profile departments that were admitted to elite schools.

Originally Posted by furyshade

am not sure what field i want to go into

This isn't a big deal. You are only a sophomore. Also, many incoming graduate students are not sure what they want to do either. Don't worry about it.

This only becomes a big issue if you are applying for prestigious fellowships.

Originally Posted by furyshade

also i am curious about what kind of grades i will need to get into a good program and what else i need to do so. hopefully some people in grad school in the forum that can answer people's questions here

This question depends on what you mean by a "good program". If you mean top 10, you should be aiming for 3.8+, but 3.7 is acceptable in some cases. If you are thinking about the elite programs (MIT, Berkeley, Stanford - maybe Caltech), you're going to need 3.9+ for EE to be marginally competitive.

Keep in mind, these schools routinely reject 4.0's - especially those applicants with no research backgrounds.

Originally Posted by furyshade

he is both NAE and NAS and has a hamming medal

This is pretty much all you need to say about how "big" he is. His name is definitely big enough.

Originally Posted by Xylocain

I'm not an expert on electrical engeneering, but given its a field where the universities have to compete with the industry for talent I assume its relatively easy to get admitted even to the very best schools.

EECS is still extremely competitive. Berkeley's EECS program accepted 100/2500 applicants for the 2008 admissions cycle

http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/Gradadm/Competition.htm

"If Berkeley is your preferred choice for graduate study, and you believe that you have superior qualifications, then we encourage you to apply. However, you should be aware that admissions are very competitive. Most successful applicants last year had GPAs above 3.7 and GRE quantitative scores above 90%. Many successful Computer Science applicants took the GRE Computer Science Subject test and scored above 90%. For Fall 2008 we had approximately 2500 applicants for about 100 slots."

In my opinion, their GPA quote is misleading. Their applicants include people from many grade-deflating institutions such as Caltech/MIT/etc...

[furyshade]

wow, thanks ayfu, that is pretty in depth. i feel like my biggest impediment right now will be GPA, i don't have all my grades for semester yet but i am estimating that so far my total GPA will be ~3.62, just counting math/physics/engineering classes it is 3.73 so far and i assume it will only get harder

[Negleyjj]

I'm looking for advice in Psychology, if anyone can help. I want to go to grad school to study Cognitive Psychology, at the moment I'm interested in Working Memory and Context Change, though most of the Cognitive branch is of some interest to me. I am going to be a senior in the Fall.

My GPA is a 3.79 overall, with a 4.0 in major (I have an A-, but our school implemented A+'s a year or so ago and I've gotten 4 in major), however, my school, UNCG, isn't a top tier school in the least (though we do have a decent Psychology, and specifically cognitive, program here).

I did not do general honors (I was a slacker as a freshman, but have changed a great deal since then) and thought I would be able to do honors in Psychology in 2 semesters, but it turns out it requires 3 semesters so I will not be graduating with honors in Psychology either (though I will be doing an honors thesis, attempting to get something published in a journal, nonetheless).

I have been working in a Research Lab as an assistant for the last year with the same professor, and next semester I will be doing Directed Readings/Independent study with him and hopefully turning out an IRB proposal and getting something published within the next year (a big goal, I know). This summer I am working with another professor whom I will also be taking a lecture with next semester, but I will not be working in her lab in the Fall. However, I will be working in two separate Research Labs as an assistant next semester. In at least one, and perhaps both, of them it will be a sort of RA/Independent Study mix, as I will be reading and discussing papers with the professor (with a possibility of doing research with the professor in the future) in addition to being an assistant. The letter of recommendation from the first prof will be awesome. And I think I could get solid letters out of both of the profs whose labs I will be in next semester, as well as perhaps the one this summer (I don't know this professor at all, basically, but hopefully I will get to know her better this summer and early next semester).

I haven't taken the GRE yet, but know I need to do so soon. I just bought a study book the other day. This part really does scare me, as my SATs weren't great (1730 with 3 scores; 660 math, either 530 or 540 for the other old score, and either 530 or 540 with the new one), though I never did any sort of prep tests or study things for it, so hopefully my GRE will be higher.

I am a member of Psi Chi. I recently got the paper work, certificate of acceptance etc. from the national thing, and I go to the monthly(-ish) meetings (though they are erratic).

As far as extracurriculars, I was in the SGA for two semesters. I will also be the Vice Presidents of the College Democrats starting next semester (positions last a full year, however the President may step down in December, so it may be one semester VP and one semester President). I don't know if I should list this or not though, I would think that being a VP of an organization would look good, but I don't know if mentioning politics is a good idea.

This summer I'm planning on doing some volunteer work, maybe at some soup kitchen or something. In the past I haven't really done anything. Maybe voter registration, phone banking, and canvassing, but again, I don't know if politics should be included on a resume.


Sadly, I'm late to the game and am not even sure where I want to go. I know a few of the big Cognitive schools (Washington University, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, etc.), but I don't know how much a reach they'd be. I also don't know how far I want to move (I know, I know, I have to grow up sometime).

Any advice?

[Black Peter]

Originally Posted by Negleyjj

I'm looking for advice in Psychology, if anyone can help. I want to go to grad school to study Cognitive Psychology, at the moment I'm interested in Working Memory and Context Change, though most of the Cognitive branch is of some interest to me. I am going to be a senior in the Fall.

My GPA is a 3.79 overall, with a 4.0 in major (I have an A-, but our school implemented A+'s a year or so ago and I've gotten 4 in major), however, my school, UNCG, isn't a top tier school in the least (though we do have a decent Psychology, and specifically cognitive, program here).

I did not do general honors (I was a slacker as a freshman, but have changed a great deal since then) and thought I would be able to do honors in Psychology in 2 semesters, but it turns out it requires 3 semesters so I will not be graduating with honors in Psychology either (though I will be doing an honors thesis, attempting to get something published in a journal, nonetheless).

I have been working in a Research Lab as an assistant for the last year with the same professor, and next semester I will be doing Directed Readings/Independent study with him and hopefully turning out an IRB proposal and getting something published within the next year (a big goal, I know). This summer I am working with another professor whom I will also be taking a lecture with next semester, but I will not be working in her lab in the Fall. However, I will be working in two separate Research Labs as an assistant next semester. In at least one, and perhaps both, of them it will be a sort of RA/Independent Study mix, as I will be reading and discussing papers with the professor (with a possibility of doing research with the professor in the future) in addition to being an assistant. The letter of recommendation from the first prof will be awesome. And I think I could get solid letters out of both of the profs whose labs I will be in next semester, as well as perhaps the one this summer (I don't know this professor at all, basically, but hopefully I will get to know her better this summer and early next semester).

I haven't taken the GRE yet, but know I need to do so soon. I just bought a study book the other day. This part really does scare me, as my SATs weren't great (1730 with 3 scores; 660 math, either 530 or 540 for the other old score, and either 530 or 540 with the new one), though I never did any sort of prep tests or study things for it, so hopefully my GRE will be higher.

I am a member of Psi Chi. I recently got the paper work, certificate of acceptance etc. from the national thing, and I go to the monthly(-ish) meetings (though they are erratic).

As far as extracurriculars, I was in the SGA for two semesters. I will also be the Vice Presidents of the College Democrats starting next semester (positions last a full year, however the President may step down in December, so it may be one semester VP and one semester President). I don't know if I should list this or not though, I would think that being a VP of an organization would look good, but I don't know if mentioning politics is a good idea.

This summer I'm planning on doing some volunteer work, maybe at some soup kitchen or something. In the past I haven't really done anything. Maybe voter registration, phone banking, and canvassing, but again, I don't know if politics should be included on a resume.


Sadly, I'm late to the game and am not even sure where I want to go. I know a few of the big Cognitive schools (Washington University, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, etc.), but I don't know how much a reach they'd be. I also don't know how far I want to move (I know, I know, I have to grow up sometime).

Any advice?

I received my Ph.D. in Experimental Psychology from UIUC, so i know what it takes to get into their program.

GPA and GRE

If you have those, they'll want you in the Cognitive program. The letters, research, etc, can possibly help if you're weak in GPA or GRE.

Allow me to explain how important the GPA and GRE are. When i applied there, i also was accepted to places like Carnegie Mellon, and in fact was so sure i didn't want to go to UIUC that i didn't send them anything except my transcripts and GRE scores. I basically blew off the application, letters, personal statement, etc. They accepted me anyway and the secretary filled out all the application paperwork for me. Once they flew me out and showed me the Beckman Institute, i was sold.

Disclaimer: other schools might be different.

Good luck with it.

[dalerobk]

Below is a post I made on an earlier thread.

As for your recommendation question, realize that your recommender is not as important as the quality of his recommendation. In other words, a recommendation from a no name who can say all kinds of great things about you and mean it is better than a recommendation from a big name that is mediocre. Also, realize that your individual dedication is the single most important aspect of getting accepted to a top program in any individual field. Grades, GRE, and recommendations are important, but many people have those things and get rejected. It takes a lot more than that to get accepted.

I have a Ph.D. in Early Modern French history. I don’t know about this specific field, and every field is very different. So there is that caveat to everything that follows.

First, doing a Ph.D. is a major commitment. As a general rule of thumb, you should not do a Ph.D. unless there is nothing else you can imagine yourself doing. I repeat, if there is anything else you can imagine doing, you should do that. People at the application process always underestimate how long it takes, and in fact, graduate schools often give fairly misleading information about this. For example, most people applying to history grad programs think it takes 5 years. The reality is that it takes 7-8 years, sometimes longer, but history is probably the most time of any field. I have never heard of anyone doing a Ph.D. in under 5 years—certainly not at a top school. I would be very surprised if a Ph.D. in your field took less than 5 years. Also, a Ph.D. in all fields requires a massive research project that is supposed to be a significant and original scholarly contribution to the field. In history this would be a 300-400 page book-length manuscript in the form of a dissertation. Again, every field is different, but you should be prepared for this. Do not underestimate the amount of determination and sincere intellectual interest that is required to actually complete something of this magnitude. It requires much more of a commitment than simply deciding you do not want to enter the workforce. People with that goal are very unlikely to actually complete the degree.

Also, most Ph.D.s pursue careers as academics. Being an academic means pursuing a full-time scholarly agenda of research and publishing while also teaching university students. Again, your field might be different in that there may be other career opportunities, but be sure you sit down and talk to a scholar in your field about all of these aspects to be sure it’s appropriate for you and your ultimate goals.

As for academic jobs, they are very difficult to come by. The job market is way, way over saturated. Even in good economic times, it can take several years to find a permanent position. And when you do, the pay is not that great and you often have to go to the first place that offers you a job—even if it’s in middle of nowhere, Utah. Again, this is field dependent and may not apply to you, but definitely look into it. You should also consider this when applying to schools.

As a general rule of thumb, you should not go to a grad school unless it is one of the very best in your field. In history, it is considered very unwise to go to a school that is not in the top 20 programs. And even then, it is difficult to find a job. It’s really astounding actually, even Ph.D.s from Harvard, Michigan, Wisconsin, and UCLA have a lot of difficulty finding jobs. Finally, do not go anywhere that does not give you a full ride, meaning tuition waiver, health insurance, and living stipend. If they’re not interested in you enough to give you these things, you shouldn’t go. Also, realize that only a third of all people entering a Ph.D. program actually end up getting the degree. This is primarily because people just don’t know what they’re getting into and decide it’s not for them. Do your research. Sit down with a scholar in your field and be as aware as possible what this entails.

Again, all of this is general and specific fields may be very different. I’d be happy to answer other questions to the best of my ability if you have others.

[Microcuts629]

If you have good grades, good GRE scores, and go to a good school, you should be able to get in anywhere as long as you have some research experience (1-2 yrs).

If anything is borderline, do research with a prof who went to grad school where you want to go to grad school. Their letter of recommendation at that school will go a lot further than you can imagine.

[furyshade]

Originally Posted by Microcuts629

If you have good grades, good GRE scores, and go to a good school, you should be able to get in anywhere as long as you have some research experience (1-2 yrs).

If anything is borderline, do research with a prof who went to grad school where you want to go to grad school. Their letter of recommendation at that school will go a lot further than you can imagine.

well, that is cool to hear cause the professor i'm working with went to harvard, though i don't know if it matters as much at a school like that.

[Vanguard]

anyone have one in physics fwiw?

[ayfu]

Originally Posted by furyshade

i feel like my biggest impediment right now will be GPA, i don't have all my grades for semester yet but i am estimating that so far my total GPA will be ~3.62, just counting math/physics/engineering classes it is 3.73 so far and i assume it will only get harder

A PhD/career in academia is inherently a low return on investment (ROI) type of career. For the same skill set and talent, you’ll likely be making much less money than you’re worth, and it can be brutal. Since you are in EECS, you have many options outside of academia.

Like you said, school only gets harder from here on out. If you’re doing good research, research is going to be harder than any of your classes. It is likely that you need to consider making some life style changes in order to accommodate your future goals. This means – less partying, more books, more research, etc…

Your GPA is on the low side for sure, but it isn’t like you are out of the running at any school. You’ll likely be a long shot at a Stanford, MIT, or Berkeley, but I’d recommend that you still give it a shot. You know the drill – just spend more time studying to increase it.

[ayfu]

Originally Posted by dalerobk

As for your recommendation question, realize that your recommender is not as important as the quality of his recommendation.

Originally Posted by dalerobk

Grades, GRE, and recommendations are important, but many people have those things and get rejected. It takes a lot more than that to get accepted.

I think these points are key. Like I said earlier, it’s about your potential project. If you have a good project that you shine in, your recommender will have a lot to say about you. These things go together.

Dalerobk – Although your comments seem very genuine and true, they are not entirely applicable to a field like EECS. Like you mentioned, PhDs are very field specific. As far as I can tell, EE PhDs should have no problem getting a job in industry. In fact, a significant percentage of engineering PhDs get industry jobs.

In the sciences and engineering, it often takes less than 7 years (theorists can push 8 years). I’d expect 4-6 years for EECS. You can confirm this by simply looking around on various faculty websites and department websites.

From what I understand about the social sciences in general, the field is highly geared toward careers in academia. Following this logic, it would be highly recommended to attend a top tier graduate program in order to have a shot at becoming a professor. However, in a field such as engineering, they have many options in industry, so a top tier school isn’t necessary because they have backup plans.