+2

Felt like the K-JD kids who floated through UG with good grades got a gut punch in 1L (i.e. me) while the people w/some work experience came out of the gate ready to go.

Of our top 10%, probably half or more were non-trad. Our #1/#2/#3 were all non-trad and all 3 had 3 years+ working in law firms as paralegals/secretaries before law school.

I went straight through JD then went back a couple years later for an LLM. It was infinitely easier to do well having some work experience and some appreciation for how easy law school is compared to a real job.

I'm a "public interest" student (i.e. I skipped firm OCI and have no interest in working for one; mostly interested in criminal), and am trying to decide whether to apply to a pro bono program that my school runs (app is due this Friday). It entails taking the bar exam in February of my 3L, and then working in one of the school's clinics full time for the rest of the Spring semester for 12 credits. The clinic selection is limited to those directly serving in-need clients, and I would need to take the same clinic beforehand in the Fall semester (for 5 credits). If the exam is passed in Feb, I'd be admitted to the bar in June.

Pros: Early admission to bar (possible summer off, or begin working early for $). Ability to take the exam again in July if I fail February, without falling behind my classmates. I hate reading cases/don’t particularly enjoy class, and the two clinics I’m interested in (Federal Litigation; Criminal Defense- both have aspects of crim defense, but Fed Lit has some civil prosecution/defense) have good reviews.

Cons: I’d essentially be committing to taking a clinic that I’ve never experienced before for 17 credits over 2 semesters. Since this program caps you to 12 credits in Spring 3L, I’d need to take 15 credits in Fall (5 of which are a clinic). Time for prep between finals and exam is a bit shorter for the February than July exam (8.5 weeks vs. 10 weeks).

Does anyone have any thoughts on or experience with a program like this? Thanks in advance!

No experience but that sounds awful to me.

How are you gonna be a litigator without reading cases?

Hate is a strong word. "I certainly won't miss reading assigned cases during my 6th law school semester" is probably more accurate.

Plus, from my brief time at a NYC public defender's office last summer, I really don't think the case "reading" employed there can be compared to case reading for class.

How exactly do you think it is different?

Don't really want to derail from my question, but.

I found that in the high-volume PD's office I was at, the vast, vast majority of case law and motions are recycled. The courts are so overburdened, it is highly unlikely that a judge will pick through the cited case law. The office has a huge database broken down by issue, with research memos for particular situations. Of course, they would read any new decisions that may change the landscape.

And I think that is different than reading 40+ pages per class per week of assigned cases.

High volume PD or DA cranking motions out is just as much hazing as law school. But after a few years you'll have more complex and novel cases hopefully. And you still need to IRAC.

I see you are going for the tried-and-true tactic of emphasizing that your situation at your public defender's office is unique. There is a high caseload there, so you won't have to do "read" cases, write motions, or do all that other gross lawyer stuff.

You are in for a rude surprise, dude. Being a lawyer is much harder than law school. That includes being a public defender.

To answer your original question, the most rewarding part of law school for me included interning at the Public Defender / State Attorney's Office. It was also way more work than a typical class. If you are going to commit to doing something for two semesters, then make sure you want to do it.

My brother is a pro bono scholar and took bar last month; it's literally a no brainer. I'm going to do it myself.

I'm not so sure about the 8.5 weeks vs. 10 weeks. He studied a full 10 weeks. He last final was like the 14th, and he started like the 16th of December and only took off Christmas Day and New Years Day.

He also wants to be a public defender. He does the criminal justice clinic through school where he represents misdemeanor defendants in the Bronx under a student practice order 20 hours per week. The other 20 hours per week he spends at Westchester Legal Aid working on felonies. Student practice orders prohibits law students from representing those charged with felonies in NY, but they get around that when cases are pre indictment, since it is not technically yet a felony, so he is allowed to stand up in Court and do bail applications and arraignments.

He has every other Friday off and every pro bono scholar that our school has placed at Westchester Legal Aid has been offered the job afterwards. Also, Westchester Legal Aid only handles felonies, so he really wants to work there.

Also, he would recommend, and I would agree that you should not take the bar exam as a pro bono scholar without taking all the classes covered on the MBE portion of exam. So all the typical 1L courses, plus Evidence, Crim Pro and Sales.

I'm a little late to this, but QFT. Not top 50, but most everyone is doing fine, just most everyone has a ridiculous debt load. Some have turned to other career areas, but it's what makes them happy so whatever.

Your question was limited to how I think reading cases in law school is different than reading cases in the field I'm interested in. And I guess you're disagreeing with me? Interesting take. I don't think I've ever heard someone take that stance.

And I'm not sure that I was going for the "tried-and-true tactic" that you speak of. I emphasized it because this is the geographical area I will be practicing in, and this is where my experience was. I'm sure that there are offices in areas that have less volume, and thus different practices.

But okay. I'm eagerly awaiting my rude surprise.

Awesome! I hope he did well. Thanks for the info; much appreciated.

Don't do it.

As opposed to your tried and true tactic of assuming that your own experience is universal, despite that being demonstrably false throughout the annals of this thread?

You are in for a rude surprise, dude. Being a human in Florida makes you a much worse person than elsewhere.

Heh, annals

C-

I would say that I am eagerly awaiting an example of something I have said that is demonstrably false, but I'm not really.

While it is certainly possible that there is something unique about the State Attorney's and Public Defender's offices in New York, where people don't do trials, read cases, or write their own motions, I somehow doubt that the entire system up there is getting away with attorneys essentially not practicing law.

I'm not sure what this means. If it's what I think it means, I guess it's not really their fault because they take everyone else's trash. Cue "only in Florida" type memes.

Your unprovoked aggression is exhausting. It is a less effective form of communication than the alternative. I assume it somehow makes you feel better about yourself in some way, but it's obnoxious to read. You've never done it to me (that I can recall) and it still exhausts me.

No U

saw Preet Bharara at Buffalo Wild Wings last night taking in the Oregon/Kansas game.

I was rejected from UC Berkeley and accepted at UT Austin - still waiting on financial aid package.

Reading TLS (top law schools) forum has me considering retaking the LSAT in June and reapplying for the next cycle. I think I could get another ~5 points out of the LSAT if I prepared in a more disciplined way. That translates to a lot of $$ and I don't want to pay for school if I don't have to.

On the other hand, I'm ready to move on from my job and don't really want to put school off for a year.