"Ask Out A Girl" Thread: 2013 Year of the Tall Blonde

[GoCubsGo]

Originally Posted by Dead

I honestly can't even fathom the idea of guys getting enjoyment out of hanging out with hot girls that they aren't banging.

Hmm...pretty strong statement you're making there, but it's actually kind of hard to poke holes in. For a guy that actually has balls and hasn't decided to settle for whatever he's got, then yeah this will be difficult.

A guy could get enjoyment out of hanging out with a hot girl he's not banging if...

He thinks he will bang her soon

She actually has a good personality AND she is dating one of his friends (this would, at least in theory, prevent the guy from developing a crush on her and getting dickteased)

The girl has a good personality and is fun to be around, and she hooks the guy up with her hot friends and doesn't get jealous or bitter about it.

Other than that, yeah I suppose I agree. Either she is hot and sucks at life, in which case you could just watch porn instead, or she is hot and cool and this will eventually lead to being upset when she doesn't reciprocate attraction.

[Henry17]

Originally Posted by CCuster_911

He already stated it was a friend that he pushed for more and nothing happened.

This is kind of critical. Normally there would be nothing wrong with the text but given he previously wanted more it changes things. I still don't think it is horrible but it is much worse than if he had never tried for more as now she is on watch and concerned about extra effort.

Originally Posted by Dead

I find that guys who spend too much time around women that they aren't dating tend to either be gay or just not that good with women in general.

It is actually the opposite. Every guy I know who gets laid a lot has a co-ed group of friends. There are too many hot girls to have sex with them all. Some just becomes friends simply because of that restriction.

[Dead]

Originally Posted by GoCubsGo

Hmm...pretty strong statement you're making there, but it's actually kind of hard to poke holes in. For a guy that actually has balls and hasn't decided to settle for whatever he's got, then yeah this will be difficult.

A guy could get enjoyment out of hanging out with a hot girl he's not banging if...

He thinks he will bang her soon

She actually has a good personality AND she is dating one of his friends (this would, at least in theory, prevent the guy from developing a crush on her and getting dickteased)

The girl has a good personality and is fun to be around, and she hooks the guy up with her hot friends and doesn't get jealous or bitter about it.

Other than that, yeah I suppose I agree. Either she is hot and sucks at life, in which case you could just watch porn instead, or she is hot and cool and this will eventually lead to being upset when she doesn't reciprocate attraction.

And this is exactly why Henry's argument on this issue falls apart, because Henry thinks that the majority of guys aren't supplicating puppy-dogs. Let's say you're talking about girls who are 9s and 10s. Don't think for a second that the straight guys who are "friends" with these girls aren't thinking about banging them, especially if they're single (then they're probably thinking about it every hang-out). The guys would probably deny it if you accused them of hanging out with her just in case she decides that they're worth sleeping with some day, but that's exactly what they're doing.

I invite Henry to make a fake account on POF or another free site posing as a hot chick in a medium to large-sized city. Put multiple pictures of a non-famous girl who's a 9 on there. Inevitably, he would get 50 messages a day from desperate donks talking about how beautiful she is and how they'd love to take her out to dinner and all of this crap. This is the problem with most guys. It's not 20% of guys that pull this puppy-dog **** with women. It's easily 75%, and the percentage is positively correlated with the attractiveness of the woman involved, for obvious reasons. 9s are a relatively scarce good, so men who approach one and think they even have a miniscule chance with her tend to try to pull the friend angle, thinking there's no way she'd accept a date invitation if they just ran straight game at her. In their minds, getting in with her as a friend will pay dividends down the line when she is depressed after her rock star boyfriend leaves her for another woman. At that point, it will be time for the average dude to take his place as the woman's boyfriend, except it never, ever happens this way.

Billy Crystal had it right. Men and women cannot be friends because the sex part gets in the way. The only general exceptions to this rule are if the
girl is taken by one of the guy's close friends, or if the guy is not attracted to the girl in question. If you aren't attracted to the girl in question though, why would you want to be friends with her?

[Spurious]

My former psychology teacher used to say:
Men and women only fit at the hip.

[Dead]

Originally Posted by Henry17

It is actually the opposite. Every guy I know who gets laid a lot has a co-ed group of friends. There are too many hot girls to have sex with them all. Some just becomes friends simply because of that restriction.

Well if you're getting laid quite a bit then you can manage having hot female friends. I could probably manage having them but I just don't see the point. That's my argument, Henry.

The first point is that it's impossible for MOST guys to simply be friends with hot women because they aren't successful with women and they inevitably feel attraction for every hot woman.

The second point is that while it may be possible for the rest of the guys to simply be friends with hot women, you won't find many guys with lots of hot female friends. Why? Because the guys don't get anything out of it. Acquaintances are a different story and I've pointed out why. But I seriously doubt that there are many single guys that are hanging out with tons of hot girls on a regular basis that they aren't banging. It's just a colossal waste of time.

Again, you need to differentiate between friends and acquaintances. I'll give you that most guys have female acquaintances. But the ones who are successful with women have very few, if any, true friends that are female. I'm not talking about calling once a month, I'm talking about hanging out with 7-8x a month and talking in between as well. Really solid friendships can be like a relationship in effort required to maintain, and the cost/benefit analysis of maintaining a solid friendship with a hot girl that you aren't banging shows that the costs clearly outweigh the benefits. The biggest cost is the opportunity cost of losing that time, which could have been spent doing something a lot more fun, like hanging out with guy friends or having sex with a hot chick.

[Henry17]

Originally Posted by Dead

Women are generally horrible at giving advice to men because they aren't even honest to themselves about what they want. It's not an issue of an incorrectly wired brain, but merely an example of cognitive dissonance at play. If you ask women what they want in a man, for example, most will say that they want a nice guy. Is this really true in life? No. They don't want to date gigantic *******s either, but they certainly don't want some supplicating tool who is going to cater to their every whim and desire.

That actually is only true on the surface. Girls give bad advice because they are not comfortable giving the actual real answers because of the negative judgments that they would be subjected to if they actually answered honestly. It isn't that they don't know the standard responses are complete BS but rather they know that if they gave honest answers they would be judged. Get to a point where a women trusts you to not be judgmental and you'll see what I mean.

Originally Posted by Dead

I honestly can't even fathom the idea of guys getting enjoyment out of hanging out with hot girls that they aren't banging. Even hanging out with ugly girls seems pointless. What do they have to offer you in terms of benefits?

Same thing that guy friends offer. There actually is no difference which is why I find the whole thing so strange. Not in your case -- but with Mittens.

[Dead]

Originally Posted by Henry17

Same thing that guy friends offer. There actually is no difference which is why I find the whole thing so strange. Not in your case -- but with Mittens.

What is the difference between us? Mittens said he has 0 female friends he'd choose to hang with over hanging with bros. I'm exactly the same way. I have a couple of "friends" that I'm currently banging, a couple of acquaintances that I use to get more "friends" to bang, and 0 actual female friends.

I'm not going to derail the thread again so what I will say is that once guys realize that, unlike poker, correct interaction with women is a solved game, their lives will dramatically improve. It is similar to a grandmaster playing a chess newbie in a match. The grandmaster can usually manipulate the newbie (politely) into doing what he wants them to do (and obviously he can beat them without manipulation, too, but that's not relevant.)

[Henry17]

Originally Posted by Dead

I invite Henry to make a fake account on POF or another free site posing as a hot chick in a medium to large-sized city. Put multiple pictures of a non-famous girl who's a 9 on there. Inevitably, he would get 50 messages a day from desperate donks talking about how beautiful she is and how they'd love to take her out to dinner and all of this crap.

Of course they will since internet dating has a insanely high percentage of losers.

Originally Posted by Dead

The second point is that while it may be possible for the rest of the guys to simply be friends with hot women, you won't find many guys with lots of hot female friends. Why? Because the guys don't get anything out of it.

Every guy I know has female friends. If you asked them to list top eight friends none would have eight males. Most would have at least two girls. What they get out of it is the same as they get out of any other friendship. With the exception of participating in contact sports there is no difference.

Really solid friendships can be like a relationship in effort required to maintain, and the cost/benefit analysis of maintaining a solid friendship with a hot girl that you aren't banging shows that the costs clearly outweigh the benefits. The biggest cost is the opportunity cost of losing that time, which could have been spent doing something a lot more fun, like hanging out with guy friends or having sex with a hot chick.

Why is hanging out with male friends more fun? What exactly are you guys doing together in your all male glory?

[Henry17]

Originally Posted by Dead

What is the difference between us? Mittens said he has 0 female friends he'd choose to hang with over hanging with bros.

Mittens generally holds positions that demonstrates he has a healthy attitude toward women. You don't.

[BadAtMeth]

Originally Posted by Dead

Let's say you're talking about girls who are 9s and 10s. Don't think for a second that the straight guys who are "friends" with these girls aren't thinking about banging them, especially if they're single

Back in uni I had a ton of superhot girl friends. I certainly thought about banging them -- that's instinctual. But since I am a human and not a dog, I was able to step back from impulsiveness and decide it was better off not to have sex. I valued the friendships over the vaginas. Hard to imagine? It happens.

9s are a relatively scarce good, so men who approach one and think they even have a miniscule chance with her tend to try to pull the friend angle, thinking there's no way she'd accept a date invitation if they just ran straight game at her.

I really, really disagree with this. I've never seen anyone use the friend angle while trying to sex an attractive woman and not have it blow up in his face. None of my successful pickups have been anything but direct. Same for the successful guys I know.

Billy Crystal had it right.

Billy Crystal had almost nothing right, especially in the getting laid arena. That's the reason his stuff is mildly funny from time to time.

If you aren't attracted to the girl in question though, why would you want to be friends with her?

I'm not attracted to any of my guy friends. Why am I friends with them?

Girls are human too.

Originally Posted by Dead

I could probably manage having them but I just don't see the point.

That's a reflection of your attitude towards women, not of The Human Condition.

The second point is that while it may be possible for the rest of the guys to simply be friends with hot women, you won't find many guys with lots of hot female friends.

I don't know who you're rolling with, man, but there are tons of us out there with broad and diverse circles of friends. A lot of our friends are, believe it or not, women and other minorities.

[Flyingbanana]

About half my friends at uni are women. I've only treated most of them as friends though.
Admittedly that may be because when I first arrived I didn't know how to flirt because I lived in a small village and went to an all boys school.

Its shallow but I don't think I'm not friends with any ugly women though, though that may be because its hard to be friends with someone who your first thought when you see them is "why are you so ugly???".

[Spurious]

Originally Posted by Henry17

What they get out of it is the same as they get out of any other friendship. With the exception of participating in contact sports there is no difference.

No, this is psychologically wrong. Men and women work differently, so there has to be a difference.

Competitiveness among males is a lot bigger in every regard, that's what I enjoy the most when hanging out with guys.
I hate it if someone doesnt care if he wins or loses. So those activities are mostly sports and video games.

I dont know what else there is to do in your free time besides all sorts of social activities, which I enjoy the most with mixed groups. That doesnt mean, I need to be really good friends with the females in the group.

Contrary to your circle of friends Henry, most of my male friends would probably list 2 girls max. (out of 8) as their best friends (if they excluded gfs).

[Mittens]

Originally Posted by Henry17

Mittens generally holds positions that demonstrates he has a healthy attitude toward women. You don't.

Thanks. I don't think my personal preference for having long 1x1 conversations with guys as opposed to girls should invalidate that. It's mostly a function of what I like to talk about more than anything else. I wouldn't be opposed at all to being good friends with a girl who loved to talk about econ, hip hop, and was genuinely funny, but if she was attractive I'd probably try to date her instead.

[Jetto]

Dead,


you're a solid poster whose advice is invaluable and a great addition to the thread.

but your mussina avatar has to go.

[Dead]

Originally Posted by Henry17

Of course they will since internet dating has a insanely high percentage of losers.

I don't think that the internet dating pool is staggeringly different from the real-life dating pool. Sure, you have some particularly unattractive people on there, and people with serious issues, but from my experience observing people, you often see this behavior exhibit in bar and club attempted pick-ups as well.

Every guy I know has female friends. If you asked them to list top eight friends none would have eight males. Most would have at least two girls. What they get out of it is the same as they get out of any other friendship. With the exception of participating in contact sports there is no difference.

If you polled the single guys, and asked if they'd like to bang their female friends, my guess is that the vast majority would want to say yes. On the other hand, I feel that you and your friends are strikingly different from the average guy and his friends, so I don't really feel confident about that poll either. Would you characterize most of your guy friends as highly metrosexual, and a little effeminate, yet still straight?

Why is hanging out with male friends more fun? What exactly are you guys doing together in your all male glory?

Poker, xbox, golf, watching sporting events, going to sporting events, etc.